5 replies to this topic

[JTPHS]

Ok so here's the hand, between me and my roommate heads up NL hold'em. We play freezout starting with 100 chips with 1/2 blinds. I pick up 9 8 and raise on the button to 5 chips and he calls.flop comes down Q J J with a spade on it, so i have a running flush draw, gutshot straight draw and the betting lead. However, he fires out a bet that's around half the pot so 5 or 6. I think for a second and call. here's my reasoning, I'm thinkin' there's a good chance he has the J, so if i hit my straight or running flush i can get paid off huge and it's not that expensive yet. However, my reads can also change and i feel like the way i called i was playing it like the Q or possibly the J. So if i feel he doesn't have it i can steal the pot from him on a later street. So i call and take one off... and catch Gin... another Q. he checks to me and i pause for a second and fire out 20 on a stone bluff because i know he can make a big laydown and i've played it like the Q. now he goes into the tank and i'm certain at this point obviously he has the J, now there's no calling here, there's fold or push in.ok so here's his thought process: i played like i have the Q, another one comes down, i know he's strong and will probably be able to take his money with a big bet... or i have the J too and he's just calling for a split.. orrrr i'm straight up bluffing and that Q comes, he checks weak... bingo for me. Now, he's pretty sure i'm strong and has put me on either the Q or the J with a chance i'm bluffing, so pretty much, the most likely out come is we spit and end up where we were, or he loses all his chips and if he catches the bluff he just gets what's in the pot now. after an eternity he finally dumps it and saves the rest of his chips. I think this was a great laydown, i probably would of bet the turn again to find out where i stood if i was him, but he's also very good at making tough decisions.I think that i played the hand well, but i think, even though he lost, that he made a better play... even if it was the wrong one at the time. Laydowns like that usually end up winning you the match later i find. Anyway... sorry this was so long, but what do you guys think of this hand?

[Random Fluke]

On the surface with what little information I have I'd say you played better than him. He was playing the cards. You were playing the cards AND the player, and that is what makes a good player. Or maybe you just got lucky this time

[JTPHS]

My roommate's also very good at playing the player, but he's a very good analytical player too. our strategies are slightly different.. i make more really good calls and he makes more really good laydowns. You're right.. there is limited information, but to get into all the gamemanship that's going on lol well we've played for over a year heads up so there's just too much to tell. he usually keeps his focus longer than i do and we actually play on a "point system" as opposed to cash.. which works quite well. he's up considerably right now. I think a lot of that has to do with his patience and ability to outwait me... oh yeah and he's a very good PLO player now and he often beats me at that.. we normally play omaha now. see wha tyou think of that

[Naismith]

Without having played you, I think he made an awful fold here if he had the jack (I can't remember if you said for sure and I'm too lazy to go back and look). You called his bet post-flop, which you might've done with a queen, although typically I'd expect a re-raise from someone with a queen. But let's assume he thinks you have the queen. When your money card comes, giving you the boat on the turn, your bet suggests you want to take the pot right there as opposed to a call, which is what you'd want with the the second nuts.To me, personally, I would've been more concerned with you having the queen had you made a smallish bet on the turn or even checked it to the river.On the other hand, maybe you bet the best hand a lot and he knows that. With no read at all, though, it comes across as either a steal or you having a big pocket pair.Peace,Jay

[JTPHS]

i like that analysis, and i agree, however, that is fairly textbook playing, or maybe elementary...our game has become quite evolved and yes i would play the hand that way with a Q... we both read each other well... and part of our game is to mix it up enough to not be readable. This is actually a play that works very well for me against weaker players because they always think i'm bluffing lol, but then i bet big and they move in with a weaker hand. you should try this type of play.he also knew that i knew he was strong and could very well get called with the second full house having the queen. You can see the back and forth psychology that goes on here... I think more what i want to say is that my roommate is a very tough player and i think the reason is because it's extremely hard to get his chips because he can make those folds and eventually you get frustrated and dump your chips to him bluffing in the wrong spot.i don't want to sound like i'm arguing with anyone, because i appreciate any extra analysis. I'd just like to share with you the complexities of the game and hopefully get people thinking a little more outside the box.anything else anyone?

[Naismith]

Hey, that's why I prefaced it by saying I hadn't played you before. ;)A move I love to make is check-calling with a flopped monster and then pushing all in as the turn falls if I'm certain my opponent has a piece of it. It looks so much like a bluff, it's worked extremely well. The weak lead has also been profitable the last few tournaments with good hands. Twice yesterday I heard, "I assumed you wouldn't bet if you had the flush."Anywho, on the surface, I don't like his fold. But that completely ignores all of the layers of NL.Peace,Jay