More Tp Overplayage...

[Zach6668 513]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Hero ($98.50)Button ($99.50)SB ($34.45)BB ($41.75)UTG ($101.50)MP1 ($43.20)MP2 ($54)Preflop: Hero is CO with J , K . 3 folds, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, BB calls $3.Flop: ($8.50) 2 , 3 , K (2 players)BB bets $7, Hero calls $7.Turn: ($22.50) 3 (2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $14, BB calls $14.River: ($50.50) T (2 players)BB bets $16.75 (All-In), Hero calls $16.75.Final Pot: $84Easiest turn check in the world, right?Furthermore, can I fold river as played?

[Lavitz 0]

1.) Hes playing shortstacked. Well not "shortstacked" but anyone who buys in with less then max at these limits usually means theyre weaker and I give them less respect. Just wanted to get that out there. I raise his flop bet and if he pushes I probably call. I don't think hes betting out set, rather Kx. KQ and AK are possible but in most cases its weaker kicker. As played, turn check seems suspicious. If he did bet set, now he has practical nuts but still unlikely. I still bet when checked too, perhaps not as much because this seems like A/WB situation and I'm trying not to turn this into big pot. As played, river push is tough. I dont think you can fold but I think you are certainly behind. Lots of things out there now: K10 has you beat and flush draw hit. Seems like K x to me, he got lucky and picked up flush draw on turn with a weaker king.

[Scott3705 0]

I don't think this hand is that bad. Where do you really think you could change this up.... I personally think the turn is always a bet to protect your hand.

[trystero 0]

Raise it up on the flop. Try to take it down there; if he pushes then you have to call, obviously.He could have a ton of holdings based on the action. Personally I think he has a busted OESD (tries to take it down on the flop, checks the turn, and pushes on a scare card). But I fold, anyhow, because that's really all I'm beating at this point.

I don't think this hand is that bad. Where do you really think you could change this up.... I personally think the turn is always a bet to protect your hand.

I don't see how he can call the flop with the stack sizes. You call with TP to try to outplay your opponent on later streets; but with these stack sizes, there's not much room for maneuverability. I guess you could just call and then move in on the turn. But why give villain another card?

[Scott3705 0]

Raise it up on the flop. Try to take it down there; if he pushes then you have to call, obviously.We have no real idea what he's holding because you didn't bet the turn. He could have a ton of holdings based on the action. Personally I think he has a busted OESD (tries to take it down on the flop, checks the turn, and pushes on a scare card). But I fold, anyhow, because that's really all I'm beating at this point.I don't see how he can call the flop with the stack sizes. You call with TP to try to outplay your opponent on later streets; but with these stack sizes, there's not much room for maneuverability. I guess you could just call and then move in on the turn. But why give villain another card?

If we're raising this flop, it's because we generally raise this flop w/ air. If that's what Zach is doing, then by all means raise it. If we're trying to get value out of this hand, raising just announced "Hi, I hit my king over here" and then you get folds from lesser hands and calls/pushes from bigger hands.we give the villian another free card cause if we're ahead he's drawing to 2-3 outs for one card.

[crankin 0]

we give the villian another free card cause if we're ahead he's drawing to 2-3 outs for one card.

I personally think the turn is always a bet to protect your hand.

The first quote was in regards to not raising the flop.Scott, I'm trying to reconcile your thoughts here. Granted, the backdoor flush draw appeared on the turn, but that aside, if we aren't already beat, isn't villain still drawing to the same 2-3 outs on the turn? This feels a lot like a WA/WB situation. I wouldn't normally think of protecting my hand in a situation like this. For me, I'd rather get to a showdown cheaply. Yes, the club on the river is ugly, and a good lag will push on that card, but I really don't give him credit for the flush here. However, if he has the 3, it's a good card as well, because now he can represent the bluff (as I doubt he's giving us credit for the flush either). I'd really like a good read on the villain (tight vs. loose) before I commit my chips on the river.It's still possible that BB called with a decent King. And, we're behind pretty much any king that would call from the BB.

[Scott3705 0]

Scott, I'm trying to reconcile your thoughts here. Granted, the backdoor flush draw appeared on the turn, but that aside, if we aren't already beat, isn't villain still drawing to the same 2-3 outs on the turn? This feels a lot like a WA/WB situation. I wouldn't normally think of protecting my hand in a situation like this. For me, I'd rather get to a showdown cheaply. Yes, the club on the river is ugly, and a good lag will push on that card, but I really don't give him credit for the flush here. However, if he has the 3, it's a good card as well, because now he can represent the bluff (as I doubt he's giving us credit for the flush either). I'd really like a good read on the villain (tight vs. loose) before I commit my chips on the river.It's still possible that BB called with a decent King. And, we're behind pretty much any king that would call from the BB.

It meant it more in terms of I am more confident I have the best hand when he checks on the turn. I don't think the downside of being wrong in trying to protect/value bet your hand on the turn is as severe as it is when we raise the flop. Also, if I only call the flop and check the turn, then i'm giving him two free cards.

[crankin 0]

It meant it more in terms of I am more confident I have the best hand when he checks on the turn. I don't think the downside of being wrong in trying to protect/value bet your hand on the turn is as severe as it is when we raise the flop. Also, if I only call the flop and check the turn, then i'm giving him two free cards.

Fair enough. In this particularly hand, given the stack sizes, I'm not sure there is much you can do. You either figure your King is good or not, and go with it. If villain's stack was as deep as ours, I think I'd still check this turn.

[iggymcfly 0]

Hand looks pretty standard to me. It's tough to get away from top pair when you're facing a short-stack. If you check the turn, you're probably calling a river push anyway so you might as well get value from hands like KT or K9. Based purely on the action, I'd guess he had KT, but from the way you worded the post, I'm thinking maybe KQ. Either way, this is the kind of hand we just have to take our lumps on.

[Zach6668 513]

Villain shows 22.