what's your move on the river?

[cdxx 0]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 6 handed) convertersaw flop|saw showdownHero ($28.9)UTG ($39.5)MP ($14.4)CO ($24.95)Button ($22.25)SB ($24.75)Preflop: Hero is BB with [Q:clubs:], [Q:hearts:]. SB posts a blind of $0.1. UTG raises to $0.5, Hero calls $1.75, UTG calls $1.50.Flop: ($6.10) [6c], [8c], [4s] (3 players)Hero checks, UTG bets $6, UTG calls $6.Turn: ($30.10) [9h] (2 players)Hero checks, UTG checks.River: ($30.10) [4h] (2 players)Hero checks, UTG bets $25 ...what do you do?

[NormanHaupt 0]

push harder preflop. Find out if its an overzealous pocket pair or really a hand. Could've been Ax, too. Only two hands beat you here, instead of a list of any hands with an A or K. I guess I'd call. But I tend to suck in NL

[wrto4556 0]

Why did you check the turn??

[wrto4556 0]

Betting the turn would have made this hand alot easier. If he raises real big on the turn, it could be an easy laydown. But because you showed weakness on the turn, he could be betting alot of garbage on the river. You have to call now.

[GT123 0]

yea..turn check is kinda odd..a nine isnt much of a scare card..it completes a straight draw..but thats why you gotta find out by betting..and since utg raise preflop..i doubt hes on the straight draw..more likely hes on a flush draw or drawing to overcards..thats another reason why betting the turn is important..you cant give a free card that beats you. I would call the river bet..doesnt look like he wants you to call here.

[Smasharoo 0]

what do you do?Quit playing NL because I have no idea what I'm doing?Seriously, if your intnet was to mystify your oponenet, I think you probably accomplished that. I'd fold this river, you have an overpair to a ragged board that someone is betting into.I'm sure you called and won the hand in spite of how stuningly badly you played to this point, so let us kow what the results were.

[wrto4556 0]

what do you do?Quit playing NL because I have no idea what I'm doing?Seriously, if your intnet was to mystify your oponenet, I think you probably accomplished that.  I'd fold this river, you have an overpair to a ragged board that someone is betting into.I'm sure you called and won the hand in spite of how stuningly badly you played to this point,  so let us kow what the results were.

How can you fold after showing so much weakness? You check the turn and river and don't think he is capable of beting a measly pair much less A-high?

[wrto4556 0]

I can't help but think you are ahead atleast 1/2 of the time.

[Smasharoo 0]

How can you fold after showing so much weakness? You check the turn and river and don't think he is capable of beting a measly pair much less A-high?Sure he his. He's also capable of having 4x, a set, a straight, etc etc.Because of the way it was played there's no way to tell.Again, I'm sure he called and I'm sure he won the pot against TT or whatever, but that's not the point. It's a bad call to make on the end there the way the hand was played.

[wrto4556 0]

I should also read the HH better before I start rambling. CO raises big preflop. Hero only calls, even though he should reraised. Hero C/r's the flop, villian calls. Turn gos check check.The problem is that you are playing UTG and not the reraiser. Had you reraise preflop this would have been so easy.:scratch: Maybe you're right, smash. There's alot he could have.OK. Had we bet the turn, what's the line for the river if he just calls, and what about if he raises.I assume if he raises the turn it's an easy fold, but what about the river?

[Smasharoo 0]

I assume if he raises the turn it's an easy fold, but what about the river?The river's actually not a bad card for us, it catches us up to some hands we were behind and really doesn't help anything we were ahead of too much.I think it's probably another overpair to be honest, but since we did nothing on the turn after we take tempo back, we look like a busted flush draw so he probably makes this bet with TT or AA.Raising pre-flop makes this hand much easier and we probably win it on the turn if we bet out strong there after the flop C/R (which is really pretty horrible, but since were here).

[wrto4556 0]

So we're folding the river (Original scenario) because we are clueless as to where we stand and don't think it's good to call off all of our chips. Correct?

[Smasharoo 0]

So we're folding the river (Original scenario) because we are clueless as to where we stand and don't think it's good to call off all of our chips. Correct?Right.Not that we should ever have been in that situation to begin with. If we had a hand that wasn't as vulnerable as an overpair here, like a set of 8s or something, playing it this way would make sense to try and induce a bet from an overpair or a weaker hand that we could raise for value.Here it just puts us in a place where even if we think this bet shows weakness we might not be able to beat a hand that makes it (KK for instance which plays much this way, raise PF, bet into a ragged flop, slow down to the flop C/R then bet out on the river after the turn check because we look like a busted draw). It is close though. I might flip a coin and end up calling. IF you put a gun to my head though, I'd say folding is better, it's a pretty big bet on the end he makes there, you'd feel pretty stupid calling and being shown 88.

[cdxx 0]

So we're folding the river (Original scenario) because we are clueless as to where we stand and don't think it's good to call off all of our chips. Correct?

guys, i really appreciate all the input. (you are going to beat me into playing right one day). I thought about this call very long and finally folded because i had no idea why he'd make a pot sized bet with just an overpair. the guy turned over nines full. i am not defending my play here, but i was going to checkraise him on the turn as well. he thought for a long time before that check which put doubt in my mind as he routinely bets into checkraises two streets in a row.thanks again.