90 replies to this topic

[williskl]

I hate to say this as i didnt believe it at first but maybe they SHOULD raise the buyin to 25k. Could get alot of the idiots out and still have their big numbers

[mhoward29]

Stylin_Fish, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 12:36 AM, said:

You should all just face the facts like I did a long time ago. Poker is no longer worth the time and mental and emotional pain it causes. I don't think it would be completely crazy to say a decent amount of you here are better then anybody at the final table(except for the 1-2 "pros"). The fact of it is, Tournament poker has turned into almost ALL luck. Even if you are good enough to fold when you are behind, there are still times when you're going to get unlucky and I don't mean just getting 2 outered. I mean the times where it is nearly impossible to fold a hand "set over set" or some mircale "royal flush over a straight flush." With the vast fields of players, you are guaranteed to be in at least one coin flip for all(or close) your chips, which means there are times where your play won't matter, you just have to turn your cards over and watch.Not to mention, but there are very few tournaments "especially the world series" where it is even worth playing in. Any 1500 dollar tournament there is an absolute joke. I'd go into one of these tournaments the same way I do the Binions $80 tournaments. Risk early and try to accumulate chips instead of sitting around being short stacked after the first level and then get knocked out, out of the cash after playing for 2 days. All poker pro's are just lifetime luckbox's who shuffle money between each other in the "big game" not to mention the tournaments where it's invite only and a freeroll. Then suddenly you don't see their name for awhile because they've been absolutely card dead and don't win anything. Then they win a 1.5 million dollar prize and it's because of the skill factor. Um no, variance decided to be good this time.Yes, i know you've seen these posts before from me and most of you think skill wins out in the long run well good luck with that. I really do hope it does and that you will go on to be great poker players. But in the end, where does that really leave you anyways?

These things you are bit.ching about... it sounds an awful lot like poker. Thats what poker is, deal with it or dont play. Looks like you have chosen not to play. Poker will still go on without you. Shut the fu.ck up, no one cares and this is a poker forum, so leave, cuz you hate it so much.

Stylin_Fish, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 1:19 AM, said:

All I'm saying is very few will ever be good enough to be called "a pro" and i don't see the point in playing to be average.

No shi.t sherlock, if it were that easy to be a pro what would be the point? You dont see everyone playing in the NFL do you? If your going to argue or bi.tch about something, make it relevant.

ricker, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 1:11 AM, said:

I've come out ahead in poker. Every single time I've gotten my money in the pot, I've been the favorite, or I've had favorable pot odds for my draws. Each time I've made the correct decision.

Wow, never ran KK up againest AA huh? Or never went for a Q high flush draw againest a bigger one? You must be the LUCKIEST player alive to always make the right decision, or maybe thats only in the eye of the beholder?

[ricker]

mhoward29, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 4:53 AM, said:

Wow, never ran KK up againest AA huh? Or never went for a Q high flush draw againest a bigger one? You must be the LUCKIEST player alive to always make the right decision, or maybe thats only in the eye of the beholder?

OK, I guess my previous post did come off as condescending, you got me thereand I apologize for that. True, I don't always make the right decision, and I get coolered ALLLLLL the time. But my point was I don't take the fact that I get bad beated or coolered personally. My point was that if you make enough correct decisions, you will come out ahead, while his point was that it was all luck, which any winning poker player will tell you is completely and 100% inaccurate.

[Mercury69]

whatarunaa, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 4:35 AM, said:

I enjoy your views and please keep posting.. some of the things you say are vvvvvvvvery true

I agree.As for Jamie Gold, regardless of what he is truly like, he still comes across as a ******. There are so many mixed messages coming from this guy and so many stories going around about him, mostly negative, that it would be very difficukt to discount them all. Did anyone talk **** like this about Raymer, Hachem or even Moneymaker? No. People call Moneymaker a huge donk, but he hasn't had anywhere near the negative press, in the past couple of years, that Gold has had in the past few days. To me, he seems like he's an obfuscating, self-serving, spoiled little ***** who lies thorugh his teeth every chance he gets. Oh, snap! I forgot! He's a Hollywood talent agent! That's what they generally do for a living, anyway. He may not be a pro poker player, but he's a pro bullshitter, no doubt.

[ripptyde]

Stylin_Fish, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 1:24 AM, said:

Mostly everything i say is in a joking manner but I believe a lot of what I say on this particular subject. Tournament poker is an absolute joke and I don't enjoy cash games enough to play it. I use to tear up SNG's, but then they changed up the format and I never adjusted to the play(mainly because it's absolutely horrible).Yes, I am going through a very hard time in my life where I am constantly depressed but the depression has nothing to do with my results in poker.

How can you sit there and say depression has nothing to do with poker results ? That is the most idiotic statement I have ever heard in my life.Its no wonder you are a losing player if all you do is cry and moan about how you don't enjoy the game. Sounds to me like you just SUCK and you have emotional issues. If you aren't playing poker anymore then WTF are you doing on a poker forum.

[nutzbuster]

This just posted on E-Bay....NEW 2006 WSOP Main Event winners bracelet!!!!Tarnished and covered in slime.Bidding starts at .02 cents.

[SwamiSwan]

[s]

Stylin_Fish, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 12:36 AM, said:

You should all just face the facts like I did a long time ago. Poker is no longer worth the time and mental and emotional pain it causes. I don't think it would be completely crazy to say a decent amount of you here are better then anybody at the final table(except for the 1-2 "pros"). The fact of it is, Tournament poker has turned into almost ALL luck. Even if you are good enough to fold when you are behind, there are still times when you're going to get unlucky and I don't mean just getting 2 outered. I mean the times where it is nearly impossible to fold a hand "set over set" or some mircale "royal flush over a straight flush." With the vast fields of players, you are guaranteed to be in at least one coin flip for all(or close) your chips, which means there are times where your play won't matter, you just have to turn your cards over and watch.Not to mention, but there are very few tournaments "especially the world series" where it is even worth playing in. Any 1500 dollar tournament there is an absolute joke. I'd go into one of these tournaments the same way I do the Binions $80 tournaments. Risk early and try to accumulate chips instead of sitting around being short stacked after the first level and then get knocked out, out of the cash after playing for 2 days. All poker pro's are just lifetime luckbox's who shuffle money between each other in the "big game" not to mention the tournaments where it's invite only and a freeroll. Then suddenly you don't see their name for awhile because they've been absolutely card dead and don't win anything. Then they win a 1.5 million dollar prize and it's because of the skill factor. Um no, variance decided to be good this time.Yes, i know you've seen these posts before from me and most of you think skill wins out in the long run well good luck with that. I really do hope it does and that you will go on to be great poker players. But in the end, where does that really leave you anyways?

I actually agree....poker is bullsh*t. 'wanting to be a pro' is bullsh*t; why do pros need to pump websites and have to sue to protect their images, etc. etc. ?? becuase there is nothing else: no future in poker. Why? because the level of player sophistication has checked any advantage pros have; they sold any advantage they had off in books etc. and now must adapt to a better class of amature. i.e. the 'fish' are now 'pikers'. Poker is NOT a sport, and tourney's are just 'Pyramid Schemes' where luck is all that really matters, becuase what determines if you get to the final table is how many all in suck outs you can get.I can see poker going the way of 'multi level marketing' and 'get rich quick'. The next TV series will be: "Who wants to be a poker star?"

[Mercury69]

ripptyde, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 11:14 AM, said:

How can you sit there and say depression has nothing to do with poker results ? That is the most idiotic statement I have ever heard in my life.Its no wonder you are a losing player if all you do is cry and moan about how you don't enjoy the game. Sounds to me like you just SUCK and you have emotional issues. If you aren't playing poker anymore then WTF are you doing on a poker forum.

WTF is wrong with you, Riptyde? You haven't got any right to take that tone or perspective with Stylin'. Take your azzhole attitude and shove it right up your pooper. Fu ckwad.

[ripptyde]

SwamiSwan, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 8:46 AM, said:

[s]I actually agree....poker is bullsh*t. pros are bullsh*t thats why they need to pump websites and have to sue to protect their images, etc. etc. becuase there is nothing else: no future in poker, it is NOT a sport, and tourney's are just 'Pyramid Schemes' where luck is all that really matters, becuase what determines if you get to the final table is how many all in suck outs you can get.

OMFG not another one. You idiot there are MANY people out there making a consistent living playing poker. Any seasoned player will tell you that in the long run poker is 80% skill 20% luck. "All luck, all suckouts" jesus please stop being a whiner, and learn how to play pokerROFL (posts like these crack me up)

[Kuge]

nutzbuster, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 11:32 AM, said:

This just posted on E-Bay....NEW 2006 WSOP Main Event winners bracelet!!!!Tarnished and covered in slime.Bidding starts at .02 cents.

I haven't check out to see if this is for real...if it is it will be a sad day for poker...yet funny for some reason. But I don't have a good sense for (sw)...so I way off base.On a side note, tone it down, too many cheap shots for me to read after being up only 30 minutes...at least try to dilute it down.

[Stylin_Fish]

ripptyde, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 8:14 AM, said:

How can you sit there and say depression has nothing to do with poker results ? That is the most idiotic statement I have ever heard in my life.[bIf you aren't playing poker anymore then WTF are you doing on a poker forum.[/b]

Because I haven't played poker in a really long time and the day I cahsed out was an extremely gratifying day. I was not sad when i cashed out or depressed about it, I just said, "This ain't for me." There is a lot more luck involved in this "game" then anyone cares to admit, especially in tournaments. If poker is for you good, i hope you wins grabillions of dollars playing it.Because I choose to be, some of the people on here are cool and hysterical. If an admin chooses to ban me for some reason, then i guess i'll have to find something else to do at midnight or early in the morning before i start my day. Well I'm off to go hang out with a friend.Stay lucky peeps.

[Mercury69]

Riptyde is still the biggest knob on this thread.

[SwamiSwan]

ripptyde, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 8:59 AM, said:

OMFG not another one. You idiot there are MANY people out there making a consistent living playing poker. Any seasoned player will tell you that in the long run poker is 80% skill 20% luck. "All luck, all suckouts" jesus please stop being a whiner, and learn how to play pokerROFL (posts like these crack me up)

Well, shleprock, why do you have to use 'put downs' to strengthen your argument? its weak.. Your going to say in tournament poker its 80% skill and 20% luck? I dont think so. Even Johnny Chan gives it 50-50. I'm not disputing the obvious fact that there are people who earn a living at poker. My point is that what gives the pros their advantage is slowly slipping away. read the three harrington books and what separates you from a "pro"? You must be buying in to the idea of being a pro, much like someone who buys a stock after its gone up 200%.

[alexruimy]

SwamiSwan, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 12:10 PM, said:

Well, shleprock, why do you have to use 'put downs' to strengthen your argument? its weak.. Your going to say in tournament poker its 80% skill and 20% luck? I dont think so. And my point is that what gives the pros their advantage is slowly slipping away. read the three harrington books and what separates you from a "pro"? You must be buying in to the idea of being a pro, much like someone who buys a stock after its gone up 200%.

I think you missed the part where shleprock said "in the long run."

[medicalmj]

Always get it in written when your dealing with large amounts of cash. Money has a way of making even the most honest people dishonest.\If this is true then hopefully other people will learn and not make the same mistake and they will get it in writting before fronting someone the money.

[brvheart]

Stylin_Fish, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 3:01 AM, said:

#1. Okay, i have no idea what you're talking about.#2. I am ahead in poker, just not enough to keep up playing a game.#3. And I'm saying NOW that with the fields so huge, it's 100% advantage to be luckier than skilled. There might have been skilled involved at some point, but not anymore and not often enough to matter. Does poker even make sense anymore? For the average tournament or cash game you might as well throw terms like "pot odds" out of the window because you will eventually run into a person that if he believes he'll hit that gushot, he'll call almost any bet and all you have to do is hope he doesn't hit it.Nowadays the "pros" have so much going for them that who cares if they don't win. Maybe to them it will matter, but they'll still get endorsments and games or have other friends who are riding the good side of variance to back them and they might even sue someone just to get their name back out there.The only reason you are getting mad about this is because i'm giving valid points and making you think about it.

LOL... if more people start calling me for all their chips on a gutshot, I would be SO happy...

SilentSnow, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 3:10 AM, said:

1st- he is a multimillionaire. so any sort of stake would be pretty unusual. [This is just speculation on your part... where is your proof that he is a multimillionare PRE-WSOP?]3rd- if his ego is even a tenth as big as you guys assume it is, there is no wayin hell he offers a stake of his winnings. he would just give the guy a few thousand for helping him out.[Steve Dannenmen made the same deal last year with his poker buddy and ended up giving him half of his winnings. FYI, I got the impression from seeing Dannenmen's house and cars that he was probably close to being a millionare BEFORE he came in 2nd, so why would he make this deal with his friend?]

[SwamiSwan]

alexruimy, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 9:13 AM, said:

I think you missed the part where shleprock said "in the long run."

Hi I'm just saying 'the long run' encompasses the assumption that all things remain the same, and player abilities will remain constant: they won't.'the long run will be the short run as amatures (sp) get better and better.

[alexruimy]

SwamiSwan, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 12:22 PM, said:

Hi I'm just saying 'the long run' encompasses the assumption that all things remain the same, and player abilities will remain constant: they won't

Hi. The amateurs may get better and better but 1) there will always be people who are new to the game 2) there will be players who have plateaued, skill wise 3) pros will get better along with the amateurs. Remember Hellmuth whining in the 2004 and 2005 WSOP's about the "minefield?" He didn't do very well, but it seems like he adjusted his abilities and had a hell of a WSOP this year. The best players can adjust to beat the competition.

[alf13]

I do agree with one thing...MTT poker is HEAVYILY luck driven.Skill will get you in a position to win it....LUCK will be the reason you did win.The MTT structure has to be so forgiving and the field has to be so small to really attribute a large number like 80% to skill.If you want to attribute a large number to skill...you better be talking about Cash games.

[SwamiSwan]

alexruimy, on Monday, August 14th, 2006, 9:32 AM, said:

Hi. The amateurs may get better and better but 1) there will always be people who are new to the game 2) there will be players who have plateaued, skill wise 3) pros will get better along with the amateurs. Remember Hellmuth whining in the 2004 and 2005 WSOP's about the "minefield?" He didn't do very well, but it seems like he adjusted his abilities and had a hell of a WSOP this year. The best players can adjust to beat the competition.

Point well taken. However, don't you think there is a 'ceiling' to the ability to play this game, outside of having outstanding 'psychic powers'? I mean, some point where the actual optimum level of skill to extract the most money from each given poker situation will have been obtained, and this will be acquired by 'more' people?Perhaps if the level of 'new players' increases at a faster pace than amateurs attain 'optimum' playing ability, the term 'pro' will hold relevance in the future.