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Bankroll for limit holdem...


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#1 Cygnus

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 11:11 AM

I have recently started to play (considerably) more and would like some advice regarding bankroll considerations for limit holdem.I am currently playing .50/1 with good success (online) and would like to move to 1/2 soon and eventually 2/4.Given this, what bankroll minimum/maximum/cashout levels would you set for each level mentioned?Thanks in advance for any discuss on this topic.

#2 LONEWOLF

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 11:22 AM

300 x the big bet. 1/2 your bankroll should be a minimum of 600$ 2/4 1200$ and so forth. This allows for the swings of said limit.L* :D

#3 tekn0wledg

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 02:15 PM

Really depends. I've read some books suggesting 50x, others suggesting more. I generally take 100x the BB. So in the .5/1.00 game I would bring $100 to the table. However, online is different than live games, in a live game I would bring more money since I can't just dip into the poker account and bring more chips to the table.I really feel, like anything in life, and especially in poker, that you should do what you personally feel comfortable with. Thus if you feel comfortable with more money at the table to survive the swings, so be it.

#4 Sundevils21

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 02:35 PM

Somebody gave me this and it helped me a lot with the exact question you're asking...BR = -(SD^2/(2*WR))*LN(ROR)where SD is your Std deviation, WR is your winrate and ROR is your desired Risk of Ruin.-Travis

#5 tekn0wledg

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 08:25 PM

can you define risk of ruin?

#6 Sundevils21

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 11:53 PM

tekn0wledg said:

can you define risk of ruin?
it's basically just your chance of losing the entire bankroll(the higher ror the smaller the bankroll, the smaller ror the bigger the bankroll)I've heard that using a 2-5% ror is good and will be a pretty good balance(between the limit you play and your bankroll).-Travis

#7 tekn0wledg

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 05:41 AM

obviously then ROR is bigger for NL.... interesting, thanks for the info.

#8 bmwguy525

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 10:59 AM

If you are looking for buy-in amounts, I've read that a good average to buy-in to any game is 40 times the small blind. That is said to leave you enough room to play comfortably. Adjust your bankroll accordingly.

#9 MnALLIn

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 11:29 AM

I think Helmuth's books says to play .50-$1 tables with a $100 bankroll for online limit hold 'em. But it all depends on the player, experience, etc. I think.

#10 wrto4556

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 01:54 PM

As you can tell there is alot of different opinions on limit bankroll.My opinion is atleast 200xbig bet. A few professionals I talk with have told me the same. Now, to the "iffy" part:If you want to jump up to $1/2 you need atleast $400. If your a concervative person and care if you drop down to $200 your few days, you should bring 350xbig bet. 350 is very conservative, but you atleast know the swings will not break you. If you feel like testing your luck, however, try playing a game with only 100-150xbig bet. I don't recommend this but if your feeling lucky (the cards are running hot, you can't play without winning) go for it. BUT ONLY IF YOUR RUNNING HOT!!But for the most part, the best thing to have is 200-350xBB(BB=big bet, not big blind). I promise you will never go broke with this deep of money. Unless your just a bad player, then bankroll is no factor in your play. :? I hope to see you at the tables.Honestly, 200-350xBB is your best option. I can't stress how correct this is.I have to disagree with the people say only 100xBB. Having insufficient bankroll is the #1 problem with most online players game. so, 200-350xBBps. no less than 200!![/i][/b]
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#11 wrto4556

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 02:01 PM

Oh yeah, you asked about cashing out. You can either keep your bankroll and not cash out, that way you move up in limits faster OR you can do this:Every time you bankroll doubles, take half.This means, for instance: say you have $300 and your playing $.50/1, whenever you make $600 take out $150. Then you will be left with $450 and still on your way to $1/2 bankroll with a little cash in your pocket. The problem with cashing out in such small limits is that you wont get much to cash out. I prefer keeping my bankroll online and not cashing out. Whenever I get up to $5/10 limits I will consider it. A very good limit player will only make 2BB/prh. So, in $.50/1 you should only be making $1 an hour over a long period of time.
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#12 JaysonWeber

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 02:05 PM

When I began playing online poker, I played .10/.20 or whatever is close to that, my bankroll was MUCH larger than that, I could have played the .50/1.00 limit and been fine, but I knew I'd be losing for a while, and to be frank, I still don't do nearly as well online as I could, I always find myself doing other stuff and instead of winning 30% of my initial investment I'm winning like 10% it makes me angry, but its something I know to work on, I say play lower limits until you hit the learning curve, once you've got that figured out go up a limit. I think this advice is good for anyone, don't play with your case money, play where you can make every move you think is correct at the time, you don't want the money to cloud your thinking, that's the worst thing that can happen.
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#13 wrto4556

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 02:32 PM

Playing where you are comfortable is important, but you have to have sufficient bankroll wherever you're at. It's too important.
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#14 RPGs316

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 02:53 PM

I play 3-6 Limit Hold 'Em at the casino I play at, and while I don't have the time to play regularly [college WOULD hinder that a little ^_^], since the minimum buy-in is $30, I'll buy-in with $60 - $80, and that holds up just fine, unless I catch nothing at all.But with free time, I agree that no less than 200xBB would be your bankroll.

#15 Cygnus

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 02:57 PM

Thanks for the replies...I've played a lot in the past (on and offline) with moderate success, but have just recently began to take it seriously.Rather then cashin a BR, I decided to build one and started with 50 bucks and .50/1.18 days later I am at ~650 and was looking to set some standards before moving to 1/2, most likely when at the 1K mark so as to avoid any scared play when moving up.Thanks again...

#16 tekn0wledg

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 06:51 PM

I also go by a similar strategy. I set a number in my head that I know i'll be comfortable with when moving up to the next level. If you are timid at any betting limit you are not going to play your best poker. If losing X amount in a hand is going to hurt your mentally then you are probably playing above your limits. You should be comfortable with winning or losing your estimated standard deviation each time you sit down to the table. If that number is too much for you to stand losing then you might want to consider bumping it down a few notches.

#17 the_stein

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 10:54 PM

well i know this isn't textbook and it hasn't been mentioned and will probably be looked down upon, but online, i sit down with the minimum, alwaysI play 5/10 and 10/20 so at 5/10 im sitting with 50 and 10/20 im sitting with 100, my bankroll is always over a grand no matter what, but i feel when I sit down with the minimum i don't get reckless, and if i do happen to go on tilt or a bad run the most im losing is the minimum, which is nothing, i usually leave after i triple my money unless im having a really good run, which is probably looked upon as well lol, but whatever works right? Different strokes for different folks

#18 srblan

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 10:52 PM

the_stein said:

well i know this isn't textbook and it hasn't been mentioned and will probably be looked down upon, but online, i sit down with the minimum, alwaysI play 5/10 and 10/20 so at 5/10 im sitting with 50 and 10/20 im sitting with 100, my bankroll is always over a grand no matter what, but i feel when I sit down with the minimum i don't get reckless, and if i do happen to go on tilt or a bad run the most im losing is the minimum, which is nothing, i usually leave after i triple my money unless im having a really good run, which is probably looked upon as well lol, but whatever works right? Different strokes for different folks
The practical problem with that strategy is that your big hands won't get paid off because you'll be all-in well before the betting is done. With a bankroll of a grand, you're playing WAY above your limits. If it works out for you, more power to you, but you are losing a lot of value by playing at those limits with that size stake.

#19 mk

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 12:12 AM

Phil Gordon's book suggests a bankroll of 500x the large bet.

#20 CardKillah

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 05:50 PM

In terms of bankroll, you can also think of it like this. If you're playing a $1/$2 limit game. The minimum to play hand, let's say it's capped preflop, flop, turn and 4 bets each on the river.... you're looking at about$16. For one hand. That's minimum, obviously. However, I've sat down at some places with $50 in a $1/$2 game, and cashed out for $100-$200. You then, obviously come into table selection, etc.A nice optimal bankroll is about 200BB. You can probably get away with less depending where you play, but, it's all about knowing your limits. (no pun intended.)-CK
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