21 replies to this topic

[The Nuts]

Overall, the table has been pretty tight. Most of my stack has built up by stealing small pots and blinds. Nobody has grown suspicious since I haven't been played back at yet.Villain is moderately aggressive, but has shown down all solid hands and has only lost one showdown.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)BB (t1160)UTG (t1430)Hero (t1985)CO (t1840)Button (t1535)SB (t1050)Preflop: Hero is MP with T , Q . 1 fold, Hero raises to t60, CO calls t60, 3 folds.Flop: (t150) 4 , T , 9 (2 players)Hero bets t75, CO raises to t160, Hero calls t85.Turn: (t470) K (2 players)Hero bets t200, CO calls t200.River: (t870) 9 (2 players)Hero bets t300, CO raises to t600, Hero folds.Final Pot: t1770---------------------This hand kind of stunk a bit. It was the min raising that was giving this away to me. The call of my bet could easily indicate a whole range of hand. But the min raise on the flop, then the call on the turn and a min raise on the river. I picked it up as my opponent thinking that they have the best hand on the flop, then concerned of the flush, they just call. Then the boat on the river and they min raise again.I had to use the extra time for my decision, but I finally decided to give up my hand. I felt pretty bad about it since I had some great odds to call, but I just thought I was beat.So, did I make the right move? Would you have played this differently?

[throwemaway]

The Nuts, on Wednesday, August 9th, 2006, 12:30 PM, said:

Overall, the table has been pretty tight. Most of my stack has built up by stealing small pots and blinds. Nobody has grown suspicious since I haven't been played back at yet.Villain is moderately aggressive, but has shown down all solid hands and has only lost one showdown.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)BB (t1160)UTG (t1430)Hero (t1985)CO (t1840)Button (t1535)SB (t1050)Preflop: Hero is MP with T , Q . 1 fold, Hero raises to t60, CO calls t60, 3 folds.Flop: (t150) 4 , T , 9 (2 players)Hero bets t75, CO raises to t160, Hero calls t85.Turn: (t470) K (2 players)Hero bets t200, CO calls t200.River: (t870) 9 (2 players)Hero bets t300, CO raises to t600, Hero folds.Final Pot: t1770---------------------This hand kind of stunk a bit. It was the min raising that was giving this away to me. The call of my bet could easily indicate a whole range of hand. But the min raise on the flop, then the call on the turn and a min raise on the river. I picked it up as my opponent thinking that they have the best hand on the flop, then concerned of the flush, they just call. Then the boat on the river and they min raise again.I had to use the extra time for my decision, but I finally decided to give up my hand. I felt pretty bad about it since I had some great odds to call, but I just thought I was beat.So, did I make the right move? Would you have played this differently?

Kudos for going with your read, but w/ the pot laying me 4:1 on my call, I make it just about everytime..Maybe I pay off hands too much, but I would just not be happy w/ myself not getting to see his hand

[Highlow16]

Thats a tough hand. I think your play on the flop was fine, you dont want to three bet it and have to lay it down if he moves in. I also think his mini-raise on the flop may signal some kind of drawing hand. What about QJ? maybe he semi bluffs the flop. You both hit your gin card on the turn and hes thinking "great! hes betting my straight for me". I think you have to call this river bet. sure he could have a boat, or a higher flush... but he could also show you something like A9. I think the odds are too significant to lay this down. People make some weird plays sometimes without even thinking about what you could have.

[gobears]

He's value betting you on the river but another 300 for a 1770 pot (6-1); I'm going to have to pay him off if he has a better hand. I've seen enough hands where your flush is the best hand that I would make the crying call.

[mjd]

You have the second nuts on the turn. I probably bet more hoping to build a pot. How much more? Unsure. Maybe closer to 3/4 pot.As played, I think you win this often enough to call the river.What do you think your villain's hand range is here?And what do you think he thinks you have.-M

[iggymcfly]

Unless, you've played a minimum of 1,000 hands with villian and know his tendencies inside and out, this is a bad river fold getting 6:1 on your money. If this is a random donkey in a $20 tourney or something, then it's a terrible fold. I mean sure, he probably has you beat a good 70% of the time, but that still leaves a ton of value on a call. Ruling out a worse flush here is a huge mistake IMO.Also, after surrendering the lead HU to a hand that likely either hit the flop fairly hard, or else was drawing to a hand that just hit, I think a C/R is likely more profitable than a lead on this turn. If he's got a worse flush, a set, or a pair +NFD, you want to get chips in the pot now. I really doubt that villian will check behind here with all the draws still out if he's ahead, and he might even make a large bet trying to price you off of one spade.

[Gooser]

crazy pot odds with the second nuts? i cant see myself ever laying that hand down

[GrinderMJ]

Wowsers, that's a bad laydown

[Outlaw4033]

GrinderMJ, on Wednesday, August 9th, 2006, 10:27 PM, said:

Wowsers, that's a bad laydown

You're getting great odds to call with the second nuts. You have to call it.

[XXEddie]

Outlaw4033, on Wednesday, August 9th, 2006, 7:33 PM, said:

You're getting great odds to call with the second nuts. You have to call it.

AsXs99KKTT44K9T9T4its actually like the....15th nutsbut still a call

[Actuary]

throwemaway, on Wednesday, August 9th, 2006, 12:43 PM, said:

Kudos for going with your read,

that's overusedhorrible fold.also, c/r the turn.

[copernicus]

Confusing hand. I dont have a clue what he has, but he does have a ton of outs. What I didnt like was the river bet. you need to plan ahead how you will respond to different action, and if folding to a min raise is one of them, dont bet. You clearly dont have confidence in your holding and you arent going to buy the pot with a 300 bet.

[The Nuts]

What I really wanted to know was that in a general situation, would you make that laydown? That was an example of such a situation. Whether you'd choose mathematics over your gut. Most of the time, I'd go with the odds. But I felt differently about this one and took the hunch I had instead of pot odds.I went with my gut and laid it down. To end the hand, my opponent showed his pocket nines to me, which gave me a sigh of relief. I ended up going on to win the sit and go.

[copernicus]

The Nuts, on Thursday, August 10th, 2006, 3:05 AM, said:

What I really wanted to know was that in a general situation, would you make that laydown? That was an example of such a situation. Whether you'd choose mathematics over your gut. Most of the time, I'd go with the odds. But I felt differently about this one and took the hunch I had instead of pot odds.I went with my gut and laid it down. To end the hand, my opponent showed his pocket nines to me, which gave me a sigh of relief. I ended up going on to win the sit and go.

If you check the flop and he bets I think youll find its a fold by the odds also. The only hands I can see betting into that board are straights and hands that beat you, and even straights have to be discounted severely. Lower flushes, sets, trips and big pairs arent betting into you.

[Actuary]

copernicus, on Thursday, August 10th, 2006, 12:41 AM, said:

If you check the flop and he bets I think youll find its a fold by the odds also. The only hands I can see betting into that board are straights and hands that beat you, and even straights have to be discounted severely. Lower flushes, sets, trips and big pairs arent betting into you.

you mean river right?and you're nuts if you think worse hands don't bet into us. seriously.

[copernicus]

Actuary, on Thursday, August 10th, 2006, 11:06 AM, said:

you mean river right?and you're nuts if you think worse hands don't bet into us. seriously.

YEs, the river. And if you get bets into you with worse hands other than straights you play games that are a lot looser than I do. The flush is too obvious, and 4th nut flush doesnt bet in games I play. Sets? or worse? NFW.

[Actuary]

copernicus, on Thursday, August 10th, 2006, 8:34 AM, said:

YEs, the river. And if you get bets into you with worse hands other than straights you play games that are a lot looser than I do.

yes, the 20's on Party.6 Man.Usually after 11:00 pm

[fckthis]

easy call. Bad laydown.

[Mercury69]

I would have paid the guy off as well, but it turns out you were up against quads. Who knew?

[iggymcfly]

copernicus, on Thursday, August 10th, 2006, 8:34 AM, said:

And if you get bets into you with worse hands other than straights you play games that are a lot looser than I do. The flush is too obvious, and 4th nut flush doesnt bet in games I play. Sets? or worse? NFW.

I can't imagine any flush checking that river if checked to. Your games must be hella weak-tight. I could even see a straight or trip nines betting that for value. Not to mention the possibility of a bluff.