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Phil Gordon Makes A Good Point About The Wpt Lawsuit, Don't Be Bias, Read


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#21 Mikey Ravioli

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:00 PM

Phil does seem like a class guy and while the suit does have some merit, perhaps the timing isn't right.Why not wait until the WPT does something underhanded before filing. For the pro's the world has never been better since the WPT. 7 people think it should be even better yet. Guys not in the suit (like DN) are just trying to protect how good they have it. Don't get greedy. Although the day I see a Greg Raymer diet and excercise video released by the WPT, I will side with the 7.

#22 triplec

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:00 PM

Daniel is by far my favorite player, but you gotta read the lawsuit.The lawsuit gives examples of the WPT placing tournament images and videos of players into video games and other non-strictly WPT tournament promotions.The players have no problem with WPT utilizing footage for promoting that one tournament; it's the other free usage of the footage for other WPT products that's crossing the line.I am curious if Daniel's deal with FCP technically shouldn't allow him to compete in WPT events due to the release.And now, I guess I'm ready to be flamed.

#23 jowest

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:02 PM

View PostDanielNegreanu, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 12:53 PM, said:

It annoys me to no end that Gordon, Bloch, and co. contuniously use that, "How would you feel if they made a bobblehead with your image on it and didn't pay you!" Right, first of all because selling Bloch bobbleheads would earn the company millions and millions of dollars :club: The WPT has done NOTHING like that... ever! They have NEVER used a players name and likeness inappropriately to sell products. Not once. There is no "smoking gun." These players overvalue their self worth to the WPT in a big way. The WPT doesn't need them one bit frankly. If they never played in another WPT event I don't think the WPT would suffer one bit.
Daniel, didn't you mention once in your blog that there was 1 time they used I think your likeness and Jesus' likeness in a banner add or something but than quickly took it down when requested? It was nice of them to take it down but I think the point is more the fact that they didn't have to. Phil made 1 good point, current management may not plan on doing it, but future managment might give them the big FU.Now I personally don't give a rats arse about who is right or wrong but the timing is pitiful.
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#24 Squamch

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:03 PM

Well, as for the "ignorant" comment, the guy had just called Phil Gordon a traitor, and I'm sure in Gordon's eyes, that is an ignorant comment. And what he said about Daniel was something to the effect of "he's not being overly intellient on this matter," which I think is a very respectful way of saying someone is wrong. I don't know who's right or who's wrong, because if the release is truly illegal, then it's illegal. I have no idea if it is or not. But it's good to see Gordon has an opposing veiw point, which he's entitled to, but doesn't go out of his way to insult other people.
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#25 silkyjonson

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:04 PM

View PostSuckaboo, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 12:00 PM, said:

Why doesn't Full Tilt and Pokerstars change their contracts to allow their high profile players the ability to promote the sites on the WPT. Why don't they take legal action against FTP. If that happened then maybe everyone could shut the **** up on this topic. This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. If you want to do something (play in WPT) and they have rules .... follow them or don't play. Nowhere on the Bill of Rights or Constitution does it say that : "someday there will something called television, and on this device people will be able to watch televised tournaments of a game called poker. These games will be run by a company known as the World Poker Tour. An all Amercans shall have the right to play". Don't want to sign it ... fine don't play. I'd like to play in those events too. But they have a rule I can't abide by. They require you to fork over $10K and I can't do that. (I only have $200).Should I call my attorney (from the legal hut at the mall) and have legal action taken against the WPT because they are discriminating against the poor? No. I wouldn't. because that would be retarded.
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#26 SAM_Hard8

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:04 PM

View PostDanielNegreanu, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 3:53 PM, said:

There is no "smoking gun." These players overvalue their self worth to the WPT in a big way. The WPT doesn't need them one bit frankly. If they never played in another WPT event I don't think the WPT would suffer one bit.
There's the rub. They benefit exponentially more because of the existence of the WSOP then the WSOP benefits from them.BTW I love his Little Green Book
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#27 umop-apisdn

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:05 PM

View PostDanielNegreanu, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 3:53 PM, said:

Right, first of all because selling Bloch bobbleheads would earn the company millions and millions of dollars :club:... There is no "smoking gun." These players overvalue their self worth to the WPT in a big way. The WPT doesn't need them one bit frankly. If they never played in another WPT event I don't think the WPT would suffer one bit.
Maybe not bobbleheads... but that WPT azz cream sounds like a sure-fire winner...As for boycotting poker tournaments - good point, makes me wonder why some would attempt to use a boycott of the WSOP to get the changes they demand made.

#28 eYank

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:05 PM

View PostStylin_Fish, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 11:31 AM, said:

Phil should go back to what he does best, not winning bracelets.
ownedbut he makes the point of the WPT using his name for **** cream, but when they used daniels face for an ad, they took it down right away, he is probably just mad

#29 Batch

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:08 PM

View Postsilkyjonson, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 3:52 PM, said:

lol.....................sailor moon good eyeall around i think there are balls that are being tasted all over this thread
then why don't they just get rid of the release
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#30 HulkHogan

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:08 PM

View PostDanielNegreanu, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 1:53 PM, said:

Right, first of all because selling Bloch bobbleheads would earn the company millions and millions of dollars :club: The WPT has done NOTHING like that... ever! They have NEVER used a players name and likeness inappropriately to sell products. Not once.
The fact that WPT has never exploited the player for marketing or commercial value is not a guarantee that it never will happen. Maybe the current management of WPT are good people and will not do such a thing, but what if WPT is taken over by someone with different views?Iīm pretty sure DN wouldnīt be too happy to see his face on a number of products he do not like, and getting no money for it either. Because it seems like the release says that WPT can do whatever they want to with the images and names of the players.And if WPT are not going to do this, if they will not exploit the players and use their image to sell products other than the TV-show itself... what is the problem? Just change the release, if the WPT are not foing to exploit the clauses there are no reason for the clauses to be there.And what if the release and the conditions are illegal? Shouldnīt WPT be forced into following the law? It is a good thing that the courts get to take a look at the contracts players sign, if there is nothing wrong with it; fine. Then the 7 players have lost some money and WPT and DN is happy. If WPT should lose the suit it shows that WPT was wrong and the 7 players were right for suing... BTW, sorry for the poor grammar :D

#31 JMnsto

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:11 PM

To an outsider it seems like Daniel sees this as more of a moral issue rather than a legal issue. He has repeadetly pointed out that sueing the people who made them rich and famous is - not only immoral - but also bad for the players involved and poker in general. This may be true. However he has only vaguely referred to some discussions with his lawyers when it comes to the actual legal issue. I don't know how thorough his investigations have been, but if WPT BROKE THE LAW, then it just isn't acceptable nevermind what they have accomplished. Imho.But it may well be that this isn't a simple true/false issue according to law. It may be that either side could win this case. It may be up to the lawyers. But what do I know.It would be nice to know what the 7 players did to avoid the law suit and how WPT replied. It could really shed some light on this feud.ps. sorry about my English. It's not my native tongue.
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#32 WowThats

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:14 PM

My personal opinion the players should be compensated for the use of their image, voice and marketing of such.On the other sideAs a consumer I would not be induced to purchase anything any poker player endorsed ever.

#33 Batch

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:14 PM

View PostBatch, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 4:08 PM, said:

then why don't they just get rid of the release
I would love it if they put out a line of Negreanu pink speedos and a very metro clothing line with wpt logos all over em and see what danny boy thinks then. Tear up the release allready.
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#34 Aardhart

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:14 PM

View PostDanielNegreanu, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 11:53 AM, said:

It annoys me to no end that Gordon, Bloch, and co. contuniously use that, "How would you feel if they made a bobblehead with your image on it and didn't pay you!" ... The WPT has done NOTHING like that... ever! They have NEVER used a players name and likeness inappropriately to sell products. Not once.
What about the allegation in paras. 57 & 58?http://www.fullconta...showtopic=70141

Quote

There is no "smoking gun."
Yes there is. There is the release itself that Lyle has refused to modify.

Quote

The WPT doesn't need them one bit frankly. If they never played in another WPT event I don't think the WPT would suffer one bit.
This is precisely right, but I don't think the 7 disagree with you. Other methods of pressure have failed. That's why they filed the lawsuit. As I read on another blog: "I heard a story, confirmed by Ron Rose, that Lyle had a meeting in 2004/5 with all the winners of the inaugural season of the WPT. He walked into the meeting late, and his first statement was (pretty much) that 'the WPT could get 6 monkeys for the TV final table and the WPT would be just as successful.' (or something close enough to that.)" http://extempore.liv...547899#t3547899Is there any defensible reason for Lyle's insistence on a release that EVERYBODY thinks is overbroad?

#35 JMnsto

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:15 PM

View PostHulkHogan, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 12:08 PM, said:

BTW, sorry for the poor grammar :club:

View PostJMnsto, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 12:11 PM, said:

ps. sorry about my English. It's not my native tongue.
:D We foreigners sure suck.
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#36 M101A1-105

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:16 PM

I say lock it up and lets move on to the next topic. How many left in the ME? Who's going to win? With what hand?

#37 HulkHogan

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:16 PM

View PostJMnsto, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 2:11 PM, said:

To an outsider it seems like Daniel sees this as more of a moral issue rather than a legal issue. He has repeadetly pointed out that sueing the people who made them rich and famous is - not only immoral - but also bad for the players involved and poker in general.
Yeah, by using DNs logic he should stop bashing the US government as they are/were responsible for creating the Internet, which he has made good money from...

#38 M101A1-105

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:18 PM

View PostHulkHogan, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 1:16 PM, said:

Yeah, by using DNs logic he should stop bashing the US government as they are/were responsible for creating the Internet, which he has made good money from...
Al Gore invented that, didn't he?

#39 kaosgirl

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:20 PM

View PostDanielNegreanu, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 11:53 AM, said:

There is no "smoking gun." These players overvalue their self worth to the WPT in a big way. The WPT doesn't need them one bit frankly. If they never played in another WPT event I don't think the WPT would suffer one bit.
Just guessing here, but that could be why they're talking to antitrust lawyers rather than just boycotting the events to make their point. Antitrust suits are all about situations where "they" dont need "you" as much as you need Them.

#40 Kei

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 12:25 PM

View Postkaosgirl, on Tuesday, August 8th, 2006, 4:20 PM, said:

Just guessing here, but that could be why they're talking to antitrust lawyers rather than just boycotting the events to make their point. Antitrust suits are all about situations where "they" dont need "you" as much as you need Them.
Good point.Original antitrust lawsuits, and subsuquent lawsuits, were about corporations that abused the power they held. They knew that their customers needed them far more than they needed their customers, and therefore they could push the limits of what they're allowed to do.Saying that the WPT doesn't need the players only helps to reinforce the Seven's argument.




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