19 replies to this topic

[shpaget]

I usually take a blind, any ace, any pair, any two broadway approach when I'm in a situation where I have less than 10x the BB...and, generally, when my M is below 10.

I'm just wondering if that is too liberal or too black and white.


For example, blinds 300/600, I have 7200, so M of 9. 15 minute blind levels.

Average stack is about 8000.

A few stacks in the 15k range, a few in the 3 k range, a few right around what I have.

80 players left, top 10 pay.

Live tourney.

Big stack at table is in the SB - he's very loose and is a big stack because he's been making bad calls and hitting....he'll call all-ins for a third of his stack with KJ...he'll also raise with KT UTG.

I'm in third position, I have 77...folded to me.

Is this a push? A limp, fold to reraise. Small raise - blech. Fold?


M from 5-10, in the early positions is where I think I'm leaking.


Also - table can be very tight, and over the last hour I've made a few raises in late position to steal the blinds. On other cases, you can have four limpers before it gets to you...and in others, a standard raise can get some strange calls....table seems to have loosened up in the last 10 minutes or so.

[gobears]

Just to be nitpicky, your M is 8 in the example you gave

But yeah, this is the gray area for me as well. From EP with 77, I would probably just raise 2.5 - 3xBB if I was going to play it - you should get some respect with an EP raise and it should go thru unless someone has a hand. If the table was loose with players who liked to call, I'd just let it go and wait for a better spot. If someone pushes over you, then you fold and still have 5400+ left at which point you are in push mode.

Pushing is ok also as that would be the Harrington play - push with PP in low M situations since you don't have the implied odds to draw for a set.

I won't play aces below A8 until I'm below 10xBB as you're usually in bad shape when someone calls. Otherwise, any PP and broadway cards work for me.

[Mercury69]

My occasional weak-tight tendency is to limp with a middle/low pocket pair and hope to hit a set. With the blinds at 300/600 and you are less than 2K below average, you still have lots of play. If someone decides to raise, then you can make you decision based on: What does the raiser have (card range and stack size), what does he think you're limping with, what will the blinds do, how much is the raise, is anyone left to bet if you call the raise, etc.

You don't want to put your tourney on the line with 77, imo, so leave yourself room to make a move later, either by folding right away or folding to a raise if you limp, or folding on the flop if you can see the flop cheaply enough.

[shpaget]

Just to be nitpicky, your M is 8 in the example you gave

I don't need math to be a good poker player, do I?

[throwemaway]

My occasional weak-tight tendency is to limp with a middle/low pocket pair and hope to hit a set. With the blinds at 300/600 and you are less than 2K below average, you still have lots of play. If someone decides to raise, then you can make you decision based on: What does the raiser have (card range and stack size), what does he think you're limping with, what will the blinds do, how much is the raise, is anyone left to bet if you call the raise, etc.

You don't want to put your tourney on the line with 77, imo, so leave yourself room to make a move later, either by folding right away or folding to a raise if you limp, or folding on the flop if you can see the flop cheaply enough.

I really don't like to play hit to win poker w/ a low M here..Id much much rather push with 77 then limp..These are the toughest M situations though, by far...M 7-10 is really tough because you don't want to overcommit yourself to a pot since you still have room to work, but you also don't want to commit a portion of your stack and have to fold w/ out the chance of 2x'ing/seeing a flop


Personally, I like to err on the side of aggression..I would push in these situations, but it coud be a leak in my game

[Mercury69]

I really don't like to play hit to win poker w/ a low M here..Id much much rather push with 77 then limp..These are the toughest M situations though, by far...M 7-10 is really tough because you don't want to overcommit yourself to a pot since you still have room to work, but you also don't want to commit a portion of your stack and have to fold w/ out the chance of 2x'ing/seeing a flop
Personally, I like to err on the side of aggression..I would push in these situations, but it coud be a leak in my game

Your leak is probably less of a leak than mine :-)

[meservery]

with an M of 8 i'd fold half the time and probably raise 3X the big blind the other half, depending on the table.

but if the blind level is about to jump in the next few minutes i'd shove or fold.

[The Nuts]

I really don't have a set way of playing this. Pushing is more of a gamble as most of the time, you'll in a coinflip situation if you get called. You could just make a typical raise if the rest of the table is tight and hope to get blinds/ante.

You could fold as well. It's a middle pair and you're well out of position. You'll only flop a set 1/8 of the time you play a pocket pair. So, seven out of eight times, you're probably going to fold on the flop. Even if you do flop a set, you might not get any action at all and it won't compensate for what you lose when you don't flop a set.

For me, I either push all in or fold. If I'm in a gambling mood, then I'll push.

[Actuary]

You don't want to put your tourney on the line with 77, imo, so leave yourself room to make a move later, either by folding right away or folding to a raise if you limp, or folding on the flop if you can see the flop cheaply enough.

I'm hardly in games where we aren't re-raised preflop when M's start getting low. I'm almost never not the one pushing the most among short stacks. And, also ,the one shortie most likely to get into the money. At least in STT"s.
You have to be aggressive when your stack still matters. 77 is a perfect pushing hand here

[mjd]

77 is a perfect pushing hand here

If you're going to open the action with 77 with a low M, you need to push. You do this for maximal fold equity. A solid player will probably fold his Axs, JT, and other marginal broadway hands. And maybe, if you're lucky, his 88 or 99!

If you're in late position and it's already been opened, that's when you actually have a tough decision.

-M

[cdipierr]

To me, as written, this is an easy push. You're 70 people away from the money and I guess the tournament structure sucks because everyone has an M of 10 or less (practically anyway). You need to double. Once done, you cans start picking off the stacks that linger (2k-3k stacks). This is as fine a hand as any.

[delasoul]

If your raise or standard 3 times the BB bet exceeds more than 30% of your chips then you should just push all-in before the flop. And to push with this hand you are better off being the first one to push instead of a raise or an all-in in front of you.

[SilentButDeadly3]

This is the gambling part of poker. Push. 7-7 looks pretty golden here as you could be waiting for 10+ hands before you pick up something that you like better than the 7's, and by that time, you could be so shortstacked that the big stacks have no choice but to call you. Push.

Personally, I don't like sitting around wishing for good cards to come to me when I'm shortstacked. If you double up, you're sitting pretty. If you take down the blinds, thats some healthy chips coming your way. If you bust, you bust. In order to win tournaments with these high blind structures, you need to: gamble and win. This is a perfect opportunity to gamble, the winning part is up to the cards.

[Willenation]

I'd rather push 24o in LP than 77 UTG. In most tournaments, in your spot, I've got enough chips to wait through the blinds and make the push blind the first time I get first in vig.

Also, toss the Ax out of hands you'll push unless x > 10. Better to push suited connecters or even garbage that won't be dominated when you get called.

[Actuary]

I'd rather push 24o in LP than 77 UTG. .

silly

in a table/tourney with this blind structure and several low stacks, I don't think your getting first in vig enough from late pos to wait. But the idea sounded nice.

[copernicus]

The guidelines are too B&W.

This hand push.

shpaget:

No luck but fun games at the Nevada Card Room. Ive been cold decked pretty bad and wind up treading water until late in the 2d hour when Ive wound up getting all in with the best of it and getting sucked out on (last night with A8 vs QT and he rivers a straight..ugh).

But the regulars (well..i guess thats everyone but me!) are cool (a big guy/Chinese Norwegian named Terry has been especially friendly), and the staff is good, dealers a little shaky but not horrible.

The only real weakness in the game overall that Ive spotted is a tendency to play any A, and overvaluing 2 overcards on the flop, An occasional inside straight draw getting crappy odds. Unfortunately i havent been the recipient of any of those fishy plays yet.

[shpaget]

shpaget:

No luck but fun games at the Nevada Card Room. Ive been cold decked pretty bad and wind up treading water until late in the 2d hour when Ive wound up getting all in with the best of it and getting sucked out on (last night with A8 vs QT and he rivers a straight..ugh).

But the regulars (well..i guess thats everyone but me!) are cool (a big guy/Chinese Norwegian named Terry has been especially friendly), and the staff is good, dealers a little shaky but not horrible.

The only real weakness in the game overall that Ive spotted is a tendency to play any A, and overvaluing 2 overcards on the flop, An occasional inside straight draw getting crappy odds. Unfortunately i havent been the recipient of any of those fishy plays yet.

Pretty close to my assessment - there's also a selection of regulars that will chase almost any flush draw for almost any price (more in the cash games, but the tourneys too)...basically, you see two hearts on a flop, bet (for example) the pot with your tptk or top set, and two people call you, you can bet your house, and everything in it, that the turn third heart has you over a barrel.

Those are great people to drag along when they don't catch.

It's a good bunch of people though and I enjoy the company as much as I enjoy the poker.

I had a funny hand in the tourney on Monday - I get two black aces utg, I limp, figuring a few short stacks are ready to make a stand and raise me, plus a couple of guys have shown preflop aggression the last few hands...basically, I'm certain I'm gonna get raised...instead, I end up going to the flop with my nice black aces against SIX other people!!!

Luckily the flop came three clubs and the turn came another and I took a nice pot and busted a guy.

[copernicus]

Pretty close to my assessment - there's also a selection of regulars that will chase almost any flush draw for almost any price (more in the cash games, but the tourneys too)...basically, you see two hearts on a flop, bet (for example) the pot with your tptk or top set, and two people call you, you can bet your house, and everything in it, that the turn third heart has you over a barrel.

Those are great people to drag along when they don't catch.

It's a good bunch of people though and I enjoy the company as much as I enjoy the poker.

I had a funny hand in the tourney on Monday - I get two black aces utg, I limp, figuring a few short stacks are ready to make a stand and raise me, plus a couple of guys have shown preflop aggression the last few hands...basically, I'm certain I'm gonna get raised...instead, I end up going to the flop with my nice black aces against SIX other people!!!

Luckily the flop came three clubs and the turn came another and I took a nice pot and busted a guy.

The holiday tourney or the night? I played the holiday, but not the night one. You should have had Howie page me

I'll be back tomorrow night...last shot till next year!

[shpaget]

The holiday tourney or the night? I played the holiday, but not the night one. You should have had Howie page me

I'll be back tomorrow night...last shot till next year!

The holiday tourney - I won the set of poker chips in the draw.


I may stop in tomorrow and say "Hi"...I can't play as I'm going on holidays Saturday morning and need to pack, but it'd be nice to put a face to the name. It's just nice that I live about 5 minutes away from my poker room.

Shall I page "copernicus" or look for a certain article of clothing?

Howie's a good dude.

btw - I pushed with my 77 and buddy in the sb found KK...somehow, I didn't suck out.

[copernicus]

The holiday tourney - I won the set of poker chips in the draw.
I may stop in tomorrow and say "Hi"...I can't play as I'm going on holidays Saturday morning and need to pack, but it'd be nice to put a face to the name. It's just nice that I live about 5 minutes away from my poker room.

Shall I page "copernicus" or look for a certain article of clothing?

Howie's a good dude.

btw - I pushed with my 77 and buddy in the sb found KK...somehow, I didn't suck out.

Black long sleeve shirt, black/gray hair, beard, glasses if you make it over.

Didnt your buddy know KK is a dog to 77? He shouldve just mucked when you turned it over.