Crazy Eights

[GoCryWolfe 0]

Tournament is a live $60 buy-in at a club in Indy. 9 Tables of 10 players. Starting stack: 1800. Down to 6 tables. Blind levels were Level 1: 10/20, Level 2: 20/40, Level 3: 30/60, Level 4: 40/80. Interesting blind levels, 25 minutes long in the first 4 levels. We are in level 4. We are 9 handed. Hero has the chiplead at the table with $4800. BB has $1420. Cutoff has roughly $3000. Both are solid players. BB I haven't played too much with, but know he's a decent player, capable of making plays at pots. CO I have played many times with. Older guy, TAG. Also can make plays, but knows when to pick his spots.Hero dealt 88 on the button. 5 folds, Cutoff raises to 300, Hero Calls, SB folds, BB raises All-In for 1420 total. (1120 more). CO folds after 15 seconds. Hero...

[Actuary 3]

I'm folding to the 300 raise.I call this all in though..but it's very close for meWe still have plenty of chips and the structre is good, so I'm ok with getting down to 3400ish

[trystero 0]

With so many chips I like calling the 300 raise so as to play position. However, I fold to the BB's raise - the BB is just 80. He's got enough chips so as not to make a panic move. He's also acting in front of a raise and a cold call(even if they're from the CO/button), so you have to figure that he's got a decent hand, maybe an A-Qs or 10-10 or J-J that he doesn't want to play OOP. I just don't think there are enough unpaired cards that he does this with so as to make the call viable.

[Actuary 3]

I don't think CO has enough chips left for us to call this pf raise.

[trystero 0]

Good point. I do hate folding 8-8 to a CO raise though. Leak probably (given the stacks).

[cdipierr 0]

What the heck? CO makes a standard position raise, we're the chipleader, and we're folding 88 to his raise? What's that about? I definitely call the CO's raise and try to bust him with the right flop here. "The CO doesn't have enough chips left..." boggles me, as he still has 2700 left, which is over 1/2 our stack, so we become a huge force if we bust him.As for the BB raise, we're getting 1.84:1 odds. If we're pretty sure he has a pair, then yes, lay it down. If we think he makes this play with AQ or AK, then we probably need to call, especially considering even if we lose this pot, we're still in good shape (3400 left, M of around 30). BTW -- if we choose to fold here, I advocate showing our 8s. I hate showing in general, but the BB might be anxious to show you he has you beat and flip up KK or whatnot. It also shows the CO we're calling him with decent (if marginal) hands.There are 54 players left at this point, blinds are somewhat fast, so this is the point we want to make some money to make a final table run.

[Actuary 3]

cdipierr,I'm playing 88 for set value if I call a raise here.The CO does not have enough chips left for us to play for set value.You really think you'll bust him on a non-8 flop?Lots of flops will suck for you and you'd be risking quite a bit to try to out play a stack that can hurt you.I think Re-raising is better than callnig..but folding the best.You also run the risk of players behind you still raising.While I would call the all in now.. I really wish I was not in this spot.

[caviness36 0]

Tournament is a live $60 buy-in at a club in Indy. 9 Tables of 10 players. Starting stack: 1800. Down to 6 tables. Blind levels were Level 1: 10/20, Level 2: 20/40, Level 3: 30/60, Level 4: 40/80. Interesting blind levels, 25 minutes long in the first 4 levels. We are in level 4. We are 9 handed. Hero has the chiplead at the table with $4800. BB has $1420. Cutoff has roughly $3000. Both are solid players. BB I haven't played too much with, but know he's a decent player, capable of making plays at pots. CO I have played many times with. Older guy, TAG. Also can make plays, but knows when to pick his spots.Hero dealt 88 on the button. 5 folds, Cutoff raises to 300, Hero Calls, SB folds, BB raises All-In for 1420 total. (1120 more). CO folds after 15 seconds. Hero...

Based on your read of cutoff, I like the preflop call of 300. I think cutoff is capable of raising here with a suited ace, ie ace, 10, so I like the call. He's willing to fold to a reraise, and he's only putting 10% of his stack on the line, so I like the call for set value. I also think it's correct to fold to BB's all-in bet. I can only see BB reraising here with a hand that has you beat or drawing to a coinflip. My assumption would be 10's or J's here. He could also have AK or AQ suited, but I would guess PP. I would rather fold, maintain a solid chip lead and pick a better spot. I can see Actuary's point regarding calling the reraise, but I hate to put 25% of my stack in the middle with 54 players left when I'm probably at best a coin flip. I would not gamble here.

[cdipierr 0]

cdipierr,I'm playing 88 for set value if I call a raise here.The CO does not have enough chips left for us to play for set value.You really think you'll bust him on a non-8 flop?Lots of flops will suck for you and you'd be risking quite a bit to try to out play a stack that can hurt you.I think Re-raising is better than callnig..but folding the best.You also run the risk of players behind you still raising.While I would call the all in now.. I really wish I was not in this spot.

I agree you're playing it for set value. Yes on a non-8 flop we don't bust him, but we probably still make money on a low flop, or even a single over. I'll go out on a limb and say the OP has some post-flop skillz and can win a pot even if there's an over to his 8s on the flop. Maybe it's a style thing. I think you're looking to play more preflop poker than postflop, which is fine. If you're doing that, then yes, raise with the 8s or fold them, but I still think a call is fine.

[Actuary 3]

Maybe it's a style thing. I think you're looking to play more preflop poker than postflop,

yes, in this case for surevisibility is important for me postflopI'm not that good at taking pots aways w/o it

[mjd 0]

You're chipleader in position with 88 with a late position open to you. And, you're playing for first. You probably should reraise here. If the opener calls your reraise, you still have position and have the advantage postflop. If this thought scares you, then fold. Calling for set value just sets-up a prime resteal opportunity for the blinds.If the BB still goes all-in after you reraise, the math on calling him becomes much easier.-M

[Actuary 3]

You're chipleader in position with 88 with a late position open to you. And, you're playing for first. You probably should reraise here. If the opener calls your reraise, you still have position and have the -M

say we raise to 900 and Blinds foldAnd CO pushes.we're getting 2:1.do you fold?

[mjd 0]

say we raise to 900 and Blinds foldAnd CO pushes.we're getting 2:1.do you fold?

In a live game versus the CO as described? Yes. We're against an overpair too often. And, more importantly, I leave myself with enough chips so that I can continue to outplay the field. Best case if CO jams is a race. And, solid play will get back our 900 chips back with much less risk.This situation is certainly different if your stack is small. Probably somewhere around M<=10. Then you're looking to get all your chips in there against a late position opener.

[gobears 0]

I would have to call the jam getting 1.84 - 1. BB could read CO for a steal and Hero with just an average hand since hero just called. Maybe he's read HOH and is thinking squeeze play even though CO raised and didn't limp.If CO is in the pot then I'd be out but since we're HU with BB, I would call this.And preflop, I like limping here rather than raising. We have position and I hate the idea of CO coming over the top if we reraise. Our stack is deep enough where I wouldn't want to fold the 8's either preflop.

[Actuary 3]

Our stack is deep enough where I wouldn't want to fold the 8's either preflop.

but don't we need a deepr villain stack?unless we count on a blind flat calling the raise and getting paid off on a "8" flop, the implied odds are not there.How much are you factoring in that you will take it down w/o a set?

[gobears 0]

but don't we need a deepr villain stack?unless we count on a blind flat calling the raise and getting paid off on a "8" flop, the implied odds are not there.How much are you factoring in that you will take it down w/o a set?

HOH says that we need about 24xBB for both parties to have the implied odds to play for the set. We have that here by plenty with blinds at 40/80.CO raising it up to 300 increases our investment rather than just putting in 80 of course but we have position and CO could be on a steal also. Add in those two factors and I think that it makes a case for calling here rather than folding. I think that our 8's could be the best hand here so I hate folding.

[Actuary 3]

HOH says that we need about 24xBB for both parties to have the implied odds to play for the set. We have that here by plenty with blinds at 40/80.

that assume limping.As you address, the 300 is hugely different than calling 80.We are also damged much more by a later r/r than if we had entered for 80Being forced to call BB all in with pots odds as an underdogYou have to assume you are taking this down on the flop UI a decent amount to justify this flat call, imo. Which is fine, that's not a strength of mine.

[GoCryWolfe 0]

Results time, people. THanks for all the views.. it's educational to see what everyone thinks.I asked for the count, and found I was getting nearly 2:1 on the call. I felt he was making a play, or had a higher pair. I was leaning strongly towards the play move and I called. He showed AK of clubs.I still would play it the way I did. I have position by just calling the CO raise. The results: He hit a K on the flop, and I couldn't catch back up. Looking back on it, I could have folded, but with the blinds so low and the opportunity to have close to 6K in chips and have the table killed, I felt I should go with the read and if I was right and it held, I'd be happy. Unfortunately, it didn't hold.