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If You Have The Pot Odds Should You Always Go For It?


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#41 reedmcneal

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 01:02 PM

View PostWowThats, on Wednesday, August 23rd, 2006, 11:59 AM, said:

Last night while playing a 120 $225 live tournament there were five left at this point I am the chip leader. Within 3 hands (played none) I was third in chips with three remaining players. UTG I get QQ blinds are 4k/8k I raise to 20k, SB goes all in, BB calls the all in.I look at the BB my instinct is telling she is calling for pot odds with maybe one face card. SB my instinct says he has two face cards maybe AK, I think for a while then fold. SB asks why did you fold, BB says I surprised you folded...why?My response: I say to the BB I think you called for pure pot odds with one face card, I believe the SB has AK or two face cards I do believe I am in the lead at this point, the cash difference between 2nd and 3rd is fair amount I believe the SB will knock you out (now I do a Hullmuth to see if I can get into the SB head). That will leave me HU with him "I know I'm the better player" and the cash difference between 1st and 3rd is a lot of money. The SB did win the hand hitting runner, runner for a straight "I would have lost and come in third". HU I make several plays to get the chip count even when I get 10/6c in the BB the SB raises to 20k I call... flop 10 - 6 - J rainbow, I check SB bets 30% of their chips, I raise leaving the SB with 20k, SB goes all in, I call. runner , runner for a straight "I lose".It does not always work out to your favor, I did play it the way I wanted too.
Give some more information, (chipstacks, payout...) but I have a couple problems:1. Earlier you said you would fold AA or KK preflop. This hand you had QQ. Big difference2. You suggested folding these hands as the chip leader. You were short stack here. Big differenceShow me a situation where you throw away AA preflop as chipleader at the end of a tournament. I'm ready to be enlightened :club:

#42 Actuary

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 01:40 PM

you threw QQ away 3 handed ?boy, 2nd better payout a ton more than 3rd.and stop all you live players with the "I put SB on two face cards and BB had 1 face (probably the Sucide King) calling for pot odds "you don't know ****except you suck and fold QQ 3 handed.

#43 WowThats

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 01:48 PM

ACTUARY: I'm not sure you understand any type of strategy within the game of poker (nor can you comprehend what you read - sorry to be rude read the post again)... or stop responding to the thread.

#44 reedmcneal

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 01:56 PM

View PostWowThats, on Wednesday, August 23rd, 2006, 1:48 PM, said:

ACTUARY: I'm not sure you understand any type of strategy within the game of poker (nor can you comprehend what you read - sorry to be rude read the post again)... or stop responding to the thread.
:club: It may be about time to try out this ignore function.

#45 Actuary

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 01:58 PM

View PostWowThats, on Wednesday, August 23rd, 2006, 1:48 PM, said:

ACTUARY: I'm not sure you understand any type of strategy within the game of poker (nor can you comprehend what you read - sorry to be rude read the post again)... or stop responding to the thread.
Can you be more specific?I think you are bs'ing about your instinctI think folding QQ 3 handed is bad.If the Payout Structre was:$5000$4500$200then ok. You can fold QQ.I think I have a decnt understanding of the game; but I"m fairly new.Would you be more specific though?thank you.

#46 WowThats

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 06:07 PM

I went from chip leader to 3rd in chips within three hands (none played). IF I call and lose I take 3rd "I believe I am the better player on the table". I played for money position versus just throwing my chips in and pray I win.When I folded AA the top 30 seats got a WSOP seat 32 players remaining, I was 5th in chip count, three players were short stacked these players ended up matching up all in before my turn. There may be a two way tie or one player eliminates the other two. Why should I get involved? I could win, I could lose but why at this point should I put my chips at risk? EGO? How many opportunities will each of have to win a WSOP seat?.............................................................................................................. No one has to agree with "my decision" it worked for me, it may not work for you or anyone else it was "my decision, my choice" I hope you have a better understanding why I played it out this way.Sincerely,

#47 strategy

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 06:16 PM

View PostWowThats, on Wednesday, August 23rd, 2006, 7:07 PM, said:

Sincerely,
Your sig is one of the worst photoshop jobs I've seen in a while.And while I'm at the OT comments: actuary, your title should be "I should really consider changing my av back to teri hatcher because she's dreamy"
QUOTE (ShakeZuma @ Wednesday, November 2nd, 2011, 4:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
seriously though, with that grammar it's really like, I mean it doesn't bother me as much that she gets beat, you know?


#48 Actuary

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 06:45 PM

View Poststrategy, on Wednesday, August 23rd, 2006, 6:16 PM, said:

Your sig is one of the worst photoshop jobs I've seen in a while.And while I'm at the OT comments: actuary, your title should be "I should really consider changing my av back to teri hatcher because she's dreamy"
and yours should be "I'm not sure who Actuary's former Avitar is But is kinda looks like Teri Hatcher":club:

#49 WowThats

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 06:51 PM

The photo is tribute to Bill Klinton's Birthday... :club: :D

#50 Loismustdie

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:26 PM

View PostWowThats, on Wednesday, August 23rd, 2006, 7:07 PM, said:

I went from chip leader to 3rd in chips within three hands (none played). IF I call and lose I take 3rd "I believe I am the better player on the table". I played for money position versus just throwing my chips in and pray I win.When I folded AA the top 30 seats got a WSOP seat 32 players remaining, I was 5th in chip count, three players were short stacked these players ended up matching up all in before my turn. There may be a two way tie or one player eliminates the other two. Why should I get involved? I could win, I could lose but why at this point should I put my chips at risk? EGO? How many opportunities will each of have to win a WSOP seat?.............................................................................................................. No one has to agree with "my decision" it worked for me, it may not work for you or anyone else it was "my decision, my choice" I hope you have a better understanding why I played it out this way.Sincerely,
Why are you arguing? It's already been said that folding A-A in a Sattelite bubble situatuion would be just fine. I wouldn't do it if I was top 5 in chips, but whatever. As far as folding Q-Q 3 handed- I use to argue when I first started playing that it would be O.K. to try and make amazing see into the future folds. That was before I played thousands of hands on 6 sites and realized that was retarded. Most of the time, I would have been wrong. Most of the time- peek, peek- no monsters around the corner. Folding QQ 3 handed while occasionaly may have been the better play in hindsight, will not be so most of the time.
So much for a comeback.

#51 simo_8ball

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 04:34 AM

View PostWowThats, on Wednesday, August 23rd, 2006, 1:48 PM, said:

ACTUARY: I'm not sure you understand any type of strategy within the game of poker (nor can you comprehend what you read - sorry to be rude read the post again)... or stop responding to the thread.
This is funny.Actuary bio - 10,000 strategy posts, most of which are dead on, well considered and useful.WowThats bio - 42 posts, most of which show a serious lack of understanding of strategy and show a dogmatic belief that his word is law and that every respected theorist on here is wrong.Please, if you can show me/us just one case of where is is correct to fold AA preflop as a chipleader in a normal tournament then please do. Thus far you have merely given an example of where you wrongly folded QQ and afterwards appeared justified in your actions because you would have been outdrawn, and an example of folding AA on the bubble of a satellite.You probably think that folding QQ to JJ is the right move if you look through the deck and see that a J would have hit.

#52 tskillz187

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 03:19 PM

View Postsimo_8ball, on Saturday, August 26th, 2006, 5:34 AM, said:

You probably think that folding QQ to JJ is the right move if you look through the deck and see that a J would have hit.
Well duh, he doesn't "pray and play".
Naismith (2:56:11 PM): fuckerflakeoutonmystakingnowmakingmillions

#53 pokerroomace

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 05:20 AM

I think you need to go for the double up here. By folding your giving away positicve equity.And btw. None of you have are so good that you should be laying this down.

#54 Jeepster80125

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 01:19 PM

View PostWowThats, on Thursday, August 24th, 2006, 2:51 AM, said:

The photo is tribute to Bill Klinton's Birthday... :club: :D
No it makes even less sense, and it's still not funny.
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QUOTE (Spademan @ Friday, May 22nd, 2009, 4:24 PM)
We are both being judgmental, the only difference is my judgments are well reasoned, well presented and actually have something to do with reality whereas yours are inane assumption wrapped in a steaming pile of contradiction.

#55 Yahkin

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 01:52 PM

QQ is not AA.Fold AA in a flat payout structure, Yes...Never anytime else PF.Past results are not a guarantee of future returns. You should have played your QQ in that situation unless you really are convinced they are holding one of the two hands that are ahead of you PF.
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#56 copernicus

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 01:55 PM

View PostYahkin, on Tuesday, December 5th, 2006, 4:52 PM, said:

QQ is not AA.Fold AA in a flat payout structure, Yes...Never anytime else PF.Past results are not a guarantee of future returns. You should have played your QQ in that situation unless you really are convinced they are holding one of the two hands that are ahead of you PF.
wow. this nightmare thread shouldve been left in the grave!
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#57 Yahkin

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 01:09 PM

View Postcopernicus, on Tuesday, December 5th, 2006, 3:55 PM, said:

wow. this nightmare thread shouldve been left in the grave!
LOL...didn't even notice the date of the thread. Jeepster started it. :club:
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