7 replies to this topic

[Jadaki]

1/2 NL, Live, Full Ring.

Reads: UTG is Loose/semi aggressive. UTG +1 is solid, MP1 is loose/very aggressive, and MP3 is weak/tight and scared to play hands postflop.

Stacks: UTG 70, UTG +1 600ish, MP1 200, I have 160, MP3 108.

I am dealt QQ in MP2.

UTG limps, UTG +1 raises to 12, MP1 calls, I call, MP 3 pushes all in for $108, fold to UTG who calls for 68 more, UTG+1 thinks about it and mucks, MP1 calls relucltantly, I ????


Thoughts: UTG limping and calling all in seems really odd, though he had pretty much overplayed every hand he had with an ace in it all day, so I was expecting he had a middle pocket pair or something like A9 or worse. MP1 had a weak hand, He was just along for the ride trying to get lucky with two cards. MP3 had a pair, the question was how big? He had made the same play earlier with 10's and 9's pushing all in preflop and getting loose calls. I also didnt reraise my QQ preflop because I was trying to disguise the strength of my hand.

I know I am ahead of UTG and MP1, and my thought here is that if I am behind MP3, I can push here to get MP1 to call off more of his chips while he is behind me in a sidepot that would possible negate any losses in the main pot in the event I am drawing to a two outter.

Push or fold?

[krup24]

I fold, we are only in for $12 and calling potentially a 4-way all in we are dominated or flipping at the very best.

[HurricaneKyle]

Weird hand. I think it looks like a fold because the weak tight player moved in over the top of another raise. Its possible that he has JJ, but more than likely its AA or KK. (Again, this is if these guys truly understand NLHE, if not then you are in a tough spot).

Reads and physical tells are VERY important in these spots with QQ. I played in a game for the first time two weeks ago. I had two queens on the button. Some kid(looked like a fish) brought it in for twenty dollars, CO deliberates and sincerely considers calling but then pushes. I now know its almost impossible for him to hold KK or AA based on his behavior. I then got my read on the kid and he hated the action in front of him. My range for the CO was JJ,AK or TT, Against that range QQ does well. I called and had the best hand the whole way.

Adjust your hand values based on the situation. In your spot with the weak-tight player moving over the top, QQ does lose some value. If this player is capable of making moves at picking up dead money, then that further complicates the situation and might push you toward calling if it was heads up.

My read on the situation is that MP1 likely has AK, MP3 has JJ or KK.

[DonkSlayer]

Let's find a better spot. Even if you're up against JJ and AK, a lot things can go down. I think the other guy that reluctantly called may have q's as well.

[subsin]

4-way, ur at best less than 50%, at worst, 4-1 or 3-1 against AA or KK, i dont think i could fold Q's but wat did they have

[Davin]

push for sure

even if we know that we'll get called by utg and utg+1, it's a money making play. weak players (mp3) tend to overplay pp's, so his range of hands is much greater than just jj-aa. there's a good chance utg and utg+1 are sharing cards and if you're afraid to go broke w/ great odds to push, you're playing above your limits.

[Scott3705]

Hmm... Really suprised by comment on this. I keep seeing 50% or less.. realizing that AA in this pot is only going to be between 50-65%. With the sort of overlay that is being given, I'm ok gambling that I have the best hand against the weak/tight POST FLOP player. And I'm fairly sure if I push and those in front of me feel forced to call that I am taking the best of that scenario w/o question. The math is pretty complicated here, so I'm going to be overly lazy and not do it, but I definately believe this is a push that has +EV.

[Jadaki]

I pushed and MP1 called me.

UTG shows A4os
MP1 shows KJos
MP3 shows KK

Flop 8, 6, 2 rainbow.
Turn 8
River J

I won the side pot, lost the main. Ended up losing around 60 in the whole deal.

Incidently, UTG+1 mucked 88 and would have made quads