44 replies to this topic

[BetItAll33]

Hand #4843364-2128 at Hermanus ($.50/$1 Hold'em)Powered by UltimateBetStarted at 13/Mar/05 14:13:50coolfish is at seat 0 with $49.25.Sun Tzu is at seat 1 with $82.50.El Cashito is at seat 2 with $38.75.DaRealBoss70 is at seat 3 with $11.40.meepsayer is at seat 4 with $23.90 (sitting out).desufnoc is at seat 5 with $21.80.CC11 is at seat 6 with $59.70.BetItAll33 is at seat 7 with $27.ruthless11 is at seat 8 with $37.05.Mac Porter is at seat 9 with $6.90.The button is at seat 0.Sun Tzu posts the small blind of $.25.El Cashito posts the big blind of $.50.coolfish: -- --Sun Tzu: -- --El Cashito: -- --DaRealBoss70: -- --desufnoc: -- --CC11: -- --BetItAll33: 6d 6sruthless11: -- --Mac Porter: -- --Pre-flop:DaRealBoss70 folds. desufnoc calls. CC11 calls.BetItAll33 calls. ruthless11 calls. Mac Porterraises to $1. coolfish calls. Sun Tzu folds. ElCashito folds. desufnoc calls. CC11 calls.BetItAll33 calls. ruthless11 calls.Flop (board: 4h 4d 7h):desufnoc checks. CC11 checks. BetItAll33 checks.ruthless11 checks. Mac Porter bets $.50. coolfishcalls. desufnoc folds. CC11 folds. BetItAll33folds. ruthless11 calls.Turn (board: 4h 4d 7h 6c): Damn !!!#$#%%ruthless11 checks. Mac Porter bets $1. coolfishfolds. ruthless11 calls.River (board: 4h 4d 7h 6c 7s):ruthless11 checks. Mac Porter checks.Showdown:ruthless11 shows 3h 6h.ruthless11 has 6h 4h 7h 6c 7s: two pair, sevens and sixes.Mac Porter shows 9h 9c.Mac Porter has 9h 9c 7h 6c 7s: two pair, nines and sevens.Hand #4843364-2128 Summary:$.50 is raked from a pot of $10.25.Mac Porter wins $9.75 with two pair, nines and sevens.----------------------------------------------------------------

[dEv~]

ya...thats about where I'd fold. I play low pocket pairs just to try to catch the set on the flop...if it doesn't come and I can't see another free card I'm outta there. Ya it sucks that your card came but thats not going to happen many times.

[BetItAll33]

yousuckedoutonme said:

don't you hate it when you could have hit gold on the turn? that's the worst. i don't mind it on the river, but the turn, i have to second your verbal frustration in numeric symbols.on a personal note, i never fold pocket 6's until the turn. this is simply because 6's are my favorite hand, no joke.well i'm not going to do the math, but it seems like your fold was mathmatically incorrect. you had 2 outs but i'm estimating you had odds around 15-1 on the call? yeah, should have called.add: ok, i did the math. you should have called.

I was getting 15:1 on a 2 outer, if you count the call behind me. Mathematically, that's a fold. 23:1 against a 2 outer.

[justblaze]

i would have checkraised the flop. if he comes back at you, call the one bet and check/fold the turn if you dont hit your set.

[BetItAll33]

yousuckedoutonme said:

BetItAll33 said:

yousuckedoutonme said:

don't you hate it when you could have hit gold on the turn? that's the worst. i don't mind it on the river, but the turn, i have to second your verbal frustration in numeric symbols.on a personal note, i never fold pocket 6's until the turn. this is simply because 6's are my favorite hand, no joke.well i'm not going to do the math, but it seems like your fold was mathmatically incorrect. you had 2 outs but i'm estimating you had odds around 15-1 on the call? yeah, should have called.add: ok, i did the math. you should have called.

I was getting 15:1 on a 2 outer, if you count the call behind me. Mathematically, that's a fold. 23:1 against a 2 outer.

how did you get 23:1?there's 10 players and 2 hole cards each. 20 cards.3 cards on the flop.52 - 20 - 3 = 29 remaining cards.2 outs / 29 remaining = roughly 15:1. ok you had 14:1 on the call, minus the call behind you, it's close.i'd still call.

Your math is wrong. You don't know what all 10 players have, so you can't eliminate those cards when calculating the odds. The only cards you are aware of are your hole cards and the board. Pick up Theory of Poker for further explanation.

[Emptyeye]

yousuckedoutonme said:

BetItAll33 said:

yousuckedoutonme said:

don't you hate it when you could have hit gold on the turn? that's the worst. i don't mind it on the river, but the turn, i have to second your verbal frustration in numeric symbols.on a personal note, i never fold pocket 6's until the turn. this is simply because 6's are my favorite hand, no joke.well i'm not going to do the math, but it seems like your fold was mathmatically incorrect. you had 2 outs but i'm estimating you had odds around 15-1 on the call? yeah, should have called.add: ok, i did the math. you should have called.

I was getting 15:1 on a 2 outer, if you count the call behind me. Mathematically, that's a fold. 23:1 against a 2 outer.

how did you get 23:1?there's 10 players and 2 hole cards each. 20 cards.3 cards on the flop.52 - 20 - 3 = 29 remaining cards.2 outs / 29 remaining = roughly 15:1. ok you had 14:1 on the call, minus the call behind you, it's close.i'd still call.

You can't count the cards of the other nine players, because you don't know what they are. At least I think that's how it works.

[justblaze]

yousuckedoutonme said:

BetItAll33 said:

yousuckedoutonme said:

don't you hate it when you could have hit gold on the turn? that's the worst. i don't mind it on the river, but the turn, i have to second your verbal frustration in numeric symbols.on a personal note, i never fold pocket 6's until the turn. this is simply because 6's are my favorite hand, no joke.well i'm not going to do the math, but it seems like your fold was mathmatically incorrect. you had 2 outs but i'm estimating you had odds around 15-1 on the call? yeah, should have called.add: ok, i did the math. you should have called.

I was getting 15:1 on a 2 outer, if you count the call behind me. Mathematically, that's a fold. 23:1 against a 2 outer.

how did you get 23:1?there's 10 players and 2 hole cards each. 20 cards.3 cards on the flop.52 - 20 - 3 = 29 remaining cards.2 outs / 29 remaining = roughly 15:1. ok you had 14:1 on the call, minus the call behind you, it's close.i'd still call.

except you dont know your opponents cards, so as far as calculating odds are concerned, theres still 47 unexposed cards left in the deck. its about 22.5:1 against for the turn, and 11:1 against for the turn and river.

[BetItAll33]

Put another way, your math assumes that nobody folded a 6. Very optimistic.

[justblaze]

BetItAll33 said:

Put another way, your math assumes that nobody folded a 6. Very optimistic.

you cant 'assume' anything when doing these types of calculations. you can only use what you 'know'. you 'know' that there are 5 cards out of the deck which are not your 2 outs. you 'know' you have 2 outs somewhere, which arent exposed.

[KDawgCometh]

Hand #4843364-2128 at Hermanus ($.50/$1 Hold'em)Powered by UltimateBetStarted at 13/Mar/05 14:13:50coolfish is at seat 0 with $49.25.Sun Tzu is at seat 1 with $82.50.El censored is at seat 2 with $38.75.DaRealBoss70 is at seat 3 with $11.40.meepsayer is at seat 4 with $23.90 (sitting out).desufnoc is at seat 5 with $21.80.CC11 is at seat 6 with $59.70.BetItAll33 is at seat 7 with $27.ruthless11 is at seat 8 with $37.05.Mac Porter is at seat 9 with $6.90.The button is at seat 0.Sun Tzu posts the small blind of $.25.El censored posts the big blind of $.50.coolfish: -- --Sun Tzu: -- --El censored: -- --DaRealBoss70: -- --desufnoc: -- --CC11: -- --BetItAll33: 6d 6sruthless11: -- --Mac Porter: -- --Pre-flop:DaRealBoss70 folds. desufnoc calls. CC11 calls.BetItAll33 calls. ruthless11 calls. Mac Porterraises to $1. coolfish calls. Sun Tzu folds. Elcensored folds. desufnoc calls. CC11 calls.BetItAll33 calls. ruthless11 calls.Flop (board: 4h 4d 7h):desufnoc checks. CC11 checks. BetItAll33 checks.ruthless11 checks. Mac Porter bets $.50. coolfishcalls. desufnoc folds. CC11 folds. BetItAll33folds. ruthless11 calls.this is actually a really good board for you. plus by the time it gets back around to you on the flop your getting 14-1 on just small bets(seven Big Bets) call. so if you hit your hand you can expect to gain a good amount of BBs from him if he has a hand. Also it wouldn't be a bad idea to CR this to see where your at since this is a low flopTurn (board: 4h 4d 7h 6c): Damn !!!#$#%%ruthless11 checks. Mac Porter bets $1. coolfishfolds. ruthless11 calls.River (board: 4h 4d 7h 6c 7s):ruthless11 checks. Mac Porter checks.Showdown:ruthless11 shows 3h 6h.ruthless11 has 6h 4h 7h 6c 7s: two pair, sevens and sixes.Mac Porter shows 9h 9c.Mac Porter has 9h 9c 7h 6c 7s: two pair, nines and sevens.Hand #4843364-2128 Summary:$.50 is raked from a pot of $10.25.Mac Porter wins $9.75 with two pair, nines and sevens.finally, stop posting results. You gain nothing in evaluating your play of a hand by going with results. Its much more important when posting a hand to not include the results as that can effect how people analyze your hand[/b]

[BetItAll33]

point taken about posting results.So you think it is correct to check raise the flop here. Then, I assume you check-fold the turn if you miss? Or would you bet out?

[justblaze]

BetItAll33 said:

point taken about posting results.So you think it is correct to check raise the flop here.  Then, I assume you check-fold the turn if you miss?  Or would you bet out?

depends on what hits the turn, and how he reacted to your checkraise.

[KDawgCometh]

justblaze said:

BetItAll33 said:

point taken about posting results.So you think it is correct to check raise the flop here.  Then, I assume you check-fold the turn if you miss?  Or would you bet out?

depends on what hits the turn, and how he reacted to your checkraise.

exactly, If he just has big cards then he'll just call your CR, if he has a solid overpair, he very well may threebet, to which you should then call

[bigslicksuited]

dEv~ said:

ya...thats about where I'd fold.  I play low pocket pairs just to try to catch the set on the flop...if it doesn't come and I can't see another free card I'm outta there.  Ya it sucks that your card came but thats not going to happen many times.

couldnt agree with you more

[Project 2501]

with pocket 6's, and that flop, i would have either bet or had i checked, i would have check raised if it was only 1 bet coming around to me. i'd be fearing maybe a k-7 or a-7, or pocket 7's but i'd want to find out right then. if re-raised, i would have dumped.i'm aware that mathmatically i'm not correct. regardless, thats how i would of played it.

[Monkeyman]

BetItAll33 said:

I was getting 15:1 on a 2 outer, if you count the call behind me.  Mathematically, that's a fold.  23:1 against a 2 outer.

Don't forget implied odds. If you hit, are you going to be able to get the other eight small bets out of this? With a pot this size, almost certainly -- it's only four big bets, and if you check-raise the turn after hitting, you'll almost certainly get two bets out of him, as well as anyone drawing to a flush (and maybe even with a made flush if the 6h hit) and other hands like A7 and A4. With the implied odds considered, I'd be tempted to call this hand, because nobody will expect your check-raise on the turn if you hit. I think the check-raise on the flop is a good alternative as well -- I'd probably choose the call, partly to save me two small bets if I miss the turn (you probably won't be calling on the turn if you don't hit anyway), and partly for the deceptive value letting you check-raise with the big bets if you hit. I'm not quite good enough at the math to choose one over the other definitively, though. A good read on the aggressor would also help -- if you had check-raised him and he called, would he bet the turn if you checked again? If he re-raised and you called, would he bet out the turn when you checked to him?

[NorthPacific]

My general rule on low pp 99-22 is to set them or forget them, unless.... the pp is either the highest card on the board or it fits into a str8.If they are highest on the board I will lead out with a bet or call a bet on the flop, looking for a set, or a higher card and some aggression. There have been numerous times when I have taken down the pot on the flop. If there is no action to me and the turn was an over card, I will bet again and again numerous times have taken the pot. I guess it's more of a semi-bluff, but it seems to work with a low flop.In the original posters hand the flop came 447 with his pocket sixes. Depending on the other players he may have been best to a couple of overs. I may have paid one bet, or more likely raised, to see the turn, looking for a 5 or 6. If played back at or nothing happens on the turn to help, then I would have folded.I have had a lot of good results using this, especially against passive opponents. Any thought, critiques welcome.

[justblaze]

NorthPacific said:

My general rule on low pp 99-22 is to set them or forget them, unless.... the pp is either the highest card on the board or it fits into a str8.If they are highest on the board I will lead out with a bet or call a bet on the flop, looking for a set, or a higher card and some aggression.  There have been numerous times when I have taken down the pot on the flop.  If there is no action to me and the turn was an over card, I will bet again and again numerous times have taken the pot.  I guess it's more of a semi-bluff, but it seems to work with a low flop.In the original posters hand the flop came 447 with his pocket sixes.  Depending on the other players he may have been best to a couple of overs.  I may have paid one bet, or more likely raised, to see the turn, looking for a 5 or 6.  If played back at or nothing happens on the turn to help, then I would have folded.I have had a lot of good results using this, especially against passive opponents.  Any thought, critiques welcome.

heres one thought: the lines of play you advocate have already been suggested.