9 replies to this topic

[Actuary]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP1 (t3292)
MP2 (t3110)
Hero (t2525)
Button (t845)
SB (t2110)
BB (t5158)
UTG (t2960)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, J.
3 folds, Hero raises to t602.....

900 in pot.

if Button pushes, easy call
SB pushes: I'll be getting 2:1
BB pushes: I'll be getting 1.7 : 1

With M of 6 if I fold, and 7 left, I'm never folding to a push preflop right ?

Well..then..tell me why I should not push preflop ?
Because I do this too much out of habit.

Or does this fall into the category of: "You don't mind a push behind you, as you need some chips here "

[throwemaway]

If BB pushes, are you plannning on calling?

[Actuary]

If BB pushes, are you plannning on calling?

yep

I think we all still do this.,
Make standard raises and then call, rather than push.
If I had QQ+, it could make sense.
But, I really don't want a push here.

Ahhhhhh.... this should go on that other post I had about pushing vs raisng-callnig a push.... Here's another advantae of this play. BB calls preflop and misses flop, sees me as pretty strong and "pot committed" in his mind, so he checks and I pick up 400 more than a push does.


Not sure why that never came up in other thread...

?

[throwemaway]

Maybe cuz that other thread was so confusing

[Gallo]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP1 (t3292)
MP2 (t3110)
Hero (t2525)
Button (t845)
SB (t2110)
BB (t5158)
UTG (t2960)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, J.
3 folds, Hero raises to t602.....

900 in pot.

if Button pushes, easy call
SB pushes: I'll be getting 2:1
BB pushes: I'll be getting 1.7 : 1

With M of 6 if I fold, and 7 left, I'm never folding to a push preflop right ?

Well..then..tell me why I should not push preflop ?
Because I do this too much out of habit.

Or does this fall into the category of: "You don't mind a push behind you, as you need some chips here "

You could raise to 2500 leaving you with only 25 chips. So this way you're still raising, but not pushing allin. And if you miss the flop then at least you still have 25 chips left (chip & a chair).
sw (smilies not working for me right now.)

[throwemaway]

yep

I think we all still do this.,
Make standard raises and then call, rather than push.
If I had QQ+, it could make sense.
But, I really don't want a push here.

Ahhhhhh.... this should go on that other post I had about pushing vs raisng-callnig a push.... Here's another advantae of this play. BB calls preflop and misses flop, sees me as pretty strong and "pot committed" in his mind, so he checks and I pick up 400 more than a push does.Not sure why that never came up in other thread...

?

Or how about the times when he calls your PF raise with A2-A10, you guys spike the Ace and you get paid off or when he calls with KJ, QJ, J10 and you hit the jack and get paid...

He might be willing to see the flop w/ those hands for a standard raise pf, but not when you push..

It would depend on the player, but I see those events listed above happening legitamately

Basically, your missing value when you push because there are hands that pay you off when you both hit the flop

[Actuary]

thanks!

good reasoning.

you call a push then as well preflop, assuming normal players left to act ?

if BB calls and pushed raggy flop, we fold right?

if he checks to us, do you push all flops?

[throwemaway]

thanks!

good reasoning.

you call a push then as well preflop, assuming normal players left to act ?

if BB calls and pushed raggy flop, we fold right?

if he checks to us, do you push all flops?

I'd be put to a real tough decision if either SB or BB pushed.. Button its obviously an instant call.. I think I might let it go if either of those two players pushed, as we still have about 2K, and the only scenario I can see that I don't hate is if I'm racing against 88-10s..But its close

Yeah, I would have to fold if BB pushed a raggy flop, and if he checks to I'm pushing

The merits I see to open pushing PF is not allowing ourselves to get outplayed on the flop if it comes down ragged like you said..

Say for example he calls a standard raise with 22-10s w/ the intention of pushing a safe flop, that is one of those situations where we would want to see all five cards, and wouldnt be able to when we miss 2/3 of the time

I see both plays as viable, but in the end, I think the standard raise is probably best

[Rocketwadster]

Harrington (in Volume II if memory serves) shows why open pushing with pocket queens from the button is actually -EV. This would be even worse would it not. Open-pushing would only reinforce my belief that too many of us have a fear of flopping (from Volume III).

Open pushing will get too many of the hands we want to call to fold, thereby reducing our positive equity.

[iggymcfly]

I think the thing with this spot is that there will be times that we want to raise and fold to a push, so we want to have at least some hands where we raise and call a push to avoid being predictable. This would be one of those spots. When I have between 12 and 15 BB though, I usually drop my PF raises to 2.5 BB so that both plays are legitimate options.