14 replies to this topic

[Rocketwadster]

Reconstructed as there is no converter for FCP.

$10 10-man SNG, down to 4 players. Blinds 100-200.

UTG: 2000 chips
Button: 4000 chips
SB: 5000
Hero: 3000 chips with

Folded to SB who calls. We have been on the bubble for about 5 minutes now. Not many hands have seen a flop. Hardly any showdowns. SB has been a solid player throughout, all cards shown in showdown throughout tourney have been high cards or pairs.

Hero checks. Mistake?

Flop comes

SB bets 200. Hero calls. Mistake? I almost pushed, but obviously didn't.

Turn comes

SB bets 400. Hero pushes.

Thoughts on all streets.

[throwemaway]

I think you either want to see all five cards or take it down on the flop..Maximize your fold equity and jam the flop imo, as most of the time if I'm in the sb, limp, and BB checks, I'll bet out at any flop hoping to take it down there...You really put him for a tough decision on the flop w/ middle pair/TPWK, and even if called, you have a boatload of outs

[gobears]

Either raise or jam the flop as you have outs and maximum fold equity.

I don't like the jam on the turn because if you have an 8, you would call to trap or min-raise for value. I would read the jam as a bluff if I were villian.

[Actuary]

how common were his completes in HU situations?

I do not like turn push for reason stated previously
Although, it's still a tough call to make for villain.

[Rocketwadster]

I really don't know why I didnt push the flop, but, I have found lately that if my opponent had the nine with ANY kicker, they are calling a push on the flop. Pretty sure the only hands that would fold would be a medium pair (maybe), bottom pair (likely), or a complete bluff. I'm not convinced at these levels that Ace -x (higher than 9) would fold either.

The turn card however was a perfect scare card to any hand that was beating me (except if they had an 8, a big pocket pair (not likely based on the action so far) or a set on the flop), which I would think would be very hard for any other hand to call. If I was called, I have a ton of outs to improve anyhow, so I think the turn push has a much greater chance of getting a hand like 9 6 to fold than a flop push.

Make sense, or am I way off base?

[gobears]

The turn card however was a perfect scare card to any hand that was beating me (except if they had an 8, a big pocket pair (not likely based on the action so far) or a set on the flop), which I would think would be very hard for any other hand to call. If I was called, I have a ton of outs to improve anyhow, so I think the turn push has a much greater chance of getting a hand like 9 6 to fold than a flop push.

Make sense, or am I way off base?

If you had an 8 in your hand - would you jam the turn?

It's a good scare card but you have to play the hand as if you had an 8.

[Actuary]

yeah, at $10 level, the paired board will be very hard to call, while I also agree w/you about the hands that do not fold on the flop.

it looks very transperant however. but that doessn't mean he can call.

[Rocketwadster]

If you had an 8 in your hand - would you jam the turn?

It's a good scare card but you have to play the hand as if you had an 8.

With those stack sizes, not much else I can do I think other than to push, with a made hand or not. The opponent saw me call his flop bet, and now push his turn bet. He must realize I have something...

[throwemaway]

If you had an 8 in your hand - would you jam the turn?

It's a good scare card but you have to play the hand as if you had an 8.

I dont know about you, but if I had an 8 on the flop, I would raise there as well...I agree w/ Gobears, it just doesnt seem to add up if you had an 8, and if you had a 9, would you jam after a scare card hits? ehh, i dunno

Jam the flop.

[Rocketwadster]

yeah, at $10 level, the paired board will be very hard to call, while I also agree w/you about the hands that do not fold on the flop.

it looks very transperant however. but that doessn't mean he can call.

What range of hands would you give our opponent to CALL my turn push?

I dont know about you, but if I had an 8 on the flop, I would raise there as well...I agree w/ Gobears, it just doesnt seem to add up if you had an 8, and if you had a 9, would you jam after a scare card hits? ehh, i dunno

Jam the flop.

You say it doesn't add up, but I disagree with that. I think it makes perfect sense, in that I had a hand that was good enough to call a flop bet (second pair), and now have made trips. The pot is big enough to win right now, so lets push. If our opponent wants to call with anything that doesn't contain an 8 or at least top pair good kicker, more power to him.

[Actuary]

What range of hands would you give our opponent to CALL my turn push?

not much.
assuming typical $10 player that panics when board pairs.
Heck I'm not calling here unless I"ve seen you make moves like this often.

it's not about the range.
It's about his ability to see thru it or not

Personally, I would push with an 8, just as I"d push that flop (probably).
I want them to guess at the wrong time

[Rocketwadster]

I personally would think at this level that is would be extremely hard for my opponent to call a push there with anything but an 8, an overpair to the board, a full house, or at least Top pair top kicker. Apparantly, that range is (once again) too narrow, as 9-7 figured it was an easy call (he didnt hesitate one iota).

I am (as always) curious about that call, in that if the situation was reversed, no way am I calling there in that spot.

I agree that I should have pushed the flop. Since I didn't, what range of hands do we give our opponent here that will fold to our push? There MUST be a range, and clearly I never seem to figure out what it is...

[Actuary]

There MUST be a range, and clearly I never seem to figure out what it is...

I spend little time trying.

[Rocketwadster]

I spend little time trying.

Liar. When playing LHE ring games, you are always putting your opponent on a range of hands based on the action throughout (or at least based on your posts in that forum you say you do). You do the same thing in a tourney, whether YOU want to admit it or not.

I highly doubt, based on the action in the hand so far, that my jack high is going to win the hand, so I must improve to win should my opponent call. Out of the probably hands that our opponent would lead at the flop and turn, how many will fold to a push there? It will vary for each opponent, but we have to start somewhere.

[Actuary]

Liar.

no, I really don't.
I don't in NL Tournies really spend much time thinking what he has that calls or doesn't here.

as I stated, it has more to do with his perception of you, than his two cards,
imo

in Limit the hand ranges work nicely along with all the other finite math involved. Here, we have your tourney life to consider. Worrying about whether he calls with 9x or how often he has JJ here won't help as much as understanding why/who we can make these transparant bluffs against (semi of otherwise)

I would not make the play you made on the turn.
If I trusted my ability to put opponents on ranges and a read on their perception of me, I might.
You have no info really.