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Can A Sfd Be Ugly? (2/4)


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#1 CobaltBlue

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 01:52 AM

Bodog 2/4 NLHE (9-handed)

SB $200
BB $1149
Cobalt $381
MP3 $812

Cobalt is MP2 w/ Q icon_suit_heart.gif Q icon_suit_diamond.gif. No read on SB. BB and MP3 are both somewhat loose pre-flop. They like to call raises with a fairly wide range. They're also capable of trickery.

Pre-flop:
3 folds, Cobalt raises to $12, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls

Flop ($48): K icon_suit_heart.gif J icon_suit_heart.gif 9 icon_suit_heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Cobalt bets $28, 2 folds, BB raises to $65, Cobalt ?
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#2 HurricaneKyle

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 07:53 AM

Raise or fold. I don't like calling.
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#3 screech

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 07:57 AM

QUOTE (HurricaneKyle @ Sunday, June 25th, 2006, 8:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Raise or fold. I don't like calling.


Why not?

I like a push hear since you have good fold equity vs hands that are ahead of you, and you have a ton of outs to improve if you gte called. Also, he could be diong this with a hand like Ahx, which you would like him to fold.

#4 Scott3705

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 10:08 AM

This one's a fold for me given this board. I think you're best case scenario is the naked Ah, and there's a host of very bad scenarios for you.

Maybe you could call his mini-raise to see if he slows down, but w/ his stack, that may be asking a lot.

#5 XXEddie

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 10:37 AM

push

unless he has AhKx, youre not in terrible shape

#6 krup24

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 12:37 PM

QUOTE (CobaltBlue @ Sunday, June 25th, 2006, 1:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cobalt is MP2 w/ Q icon_suit_heart.gif Q icon_suit_diamond.gif. No read on SB. BB and MP3 are both somewhat loose pre-flop. They like to call raises with a fairly wide range. They're also capable of trickery.


Well according to your statement above you can't fold. I believe ur hearts are good here.

BBs stack is massive and he could raising w/ any king with or without a heart. Put him to the test. Push.
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#7 DaBruins

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 12:41 PM

QUOTE (XXEddie @ Sunday, June 25th, 2006, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
push

unless he has AhKx, youre not in terrible shape


or he could have Ah10h and you would be drawing to runner runner full house.

Anyway, the pot is about 140 right and its 37 more to call. Meh.....all he has is KJ for top two pair, you got plenty of outs.

#8 subsin

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 05:02 PM

i would think this is a great flop for you, unless he has the Ah, you have flush draw, gut shot 10, and 2 queens left to help you(if ur behind), i dont think calling is bad but pushing would be better
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#9 CobaltBlue

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 05:48 PM

How opposed would y'all be to re-raising to $150 or so?
QUOTE(crazy villain @ Tuesday, September 9th, 2008, 6:44 AM) View Post
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#10 XXEddie

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 05:52 PM

QUOTE (DaBruins @ Sunday, June 25th, 2006, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
or he could have Ah10h and you would be drawing to runner runner full house.

Anyway, the pot is about 140 right and its 37 more to call. Meh.....all he has is KJ for top two pair, you got plenty of outs.



i dont see villian rasing us here with the nuts

#11 Chief

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 05:34 AM

QUOTE (XXEddie @ Sunday, June 25th, 2006, 5:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i dont see villian rasing us here with the nuts


if villain wants to play a big pot with Axhh he will find a raise easily on the flop--
i myself enjoy playing big pots with the nuts from time to time.
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#12 Scott3705

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 05:37 AM

QUOTE (CobaltBlue @ Sunday, June 25th, 2006, 5:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How opposed would y'all be to re-raising to $150 or so?


Depends on the player, but most of the time I think that would be bad. I assume you raise to 150 to fold to a raise. I honestly think that you given the action, you will find a push here regardless of whether you're ahead or behind the majority of the time.

#13 krup24

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 05:44 AM

QUOTE (CobaltBlue @ Sunday, June 25th, 2006, 5:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How opposed would y'all be to re-raising to $150 or so?


I don't hate it, but I definitely like a push way more.
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#14 bdc30

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 06:39 AM

QUOTE (CobaltBlue @ Sunday, June 25th, 2006, 5:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How opposed would y'all be to re-raising to $150 or so?


Very.

Do we think we could fold to a re-reraise?
By that point too much of our money is in the pot already.
Pushing gets more fold equity.

#15 fckthis

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 06:46 AM

QUOTE (bdc30 @ Monday, June 26th, 2006, 6:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Very.

Do we think we could fold to a re-reraise?
By that point too much of our money is in the pot already.
Pushing gets more fold equity.

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#16 DonkSlayer

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 10:42 AM

QUOTE (CobaltBlue @ Sunday, June 25th, 2006, 9:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How opposed would y'all be to re-raising to $150 or so?


I like it, with maybe just a bit more on top. Here's why for everyone:

If the BB does not have a flush but has a made hand, he will check/call Cobalt down the rest of the way, allowing Cobalt to see the turn and river very cheap.

A naked A with no pair will almost always fold to a re-raise in the $170-$200 range.

Many of you are disregarding likely holdings for BB if he's not just making a play.
A made lower flush (we're dead to 7 hearts), Q10 (ditto), AhKx (dead to 1 out), 2 pair (dead to 2q's + 7 hearts, with 4 redraw outs for villain if we get there).

We're dead an awful lot for a push. We have 2nd pair and 2nd nut draw, disregarding the 10h. If we're almost even with 2 pair and a set, he would've raised us on the flop more.
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#17 CobaltBlue

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 01:08 PM

You guys have keyed in on why a re-raise to $150 might be bad in this spot...I'll basically be committed to calling if he comes back over the top of that.

Anyway, I think I should've just pushed, but I did the re-raise and called off another $200 into a +$570 pot when he pushed. Villain flipped over Th8h and I lucked out by catching a heart on the turn. Villain was absolutely irate that I'd re-raise his check-raise.
QUOTE(crazy villain @ Tuesday, September 9th, 2008, 6:44 AM) View Post
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#18 Scott3705

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 01:12 PM

QUOTE (CobaltBlue @ Monday, June 26th, 2006, 1:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You guys have keyed in on why a re-raise to $150 might be bad in this spot...I'll basically be committed to calling if he comes back over the top of that.

Anyway, I think I should've just pushed, but I did the re-raise and called off another $200 into a +$570 pot when he pushed. Villain flipped over Th8h and I lucked out by catching a heart on the turn. Villain was absolutely irate that I'd re-raise his check-raise.


not to be results based, but I think I was the only one to think this was a fold immediately.

#19 gooch

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 01:42 PM

QUOTE (Scott3705 @ Monday, June 26th, 2006, 2:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
not to be results based, but I think I was the only one to think this was a fold immediately.



sometimes I push, sometimes I fold, depends how I am feeling that day, with a stack like villans I would have pushed. Course Villan should be wondering if his 10 high kicker is good, though he did have the straight flush redraw and I can't fold those
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#20 njtough

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 12:52 PM

I know we are analyzing Cobalt's play and everything but I think the real mistake was made by BB on the flop, thus giving Cobalt the chance to slightly misplay/luck his way out.

I don't mind the check on the flop to illicit a bet but the mini-raise is only going to bring in a Qh or Ah which is something that I would think the BB would not want. Of course he is sitting on a big stack and can probably afford to make that play, but that is just not the way I would have played it. Yes, the money was in ahead but he could have probably taken down a smaller pot by making a substantial raise on the flop. I don't think Cobalt plays back or even calls in that spot to a large enough raise and certainly not to call-in. As someone else mentioned, the hands Cobalt could beat were few, but the counter to that is also that the Th8h is a hand that is neither nutted nor has much room to improve.

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