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answer to quizz question #7


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#21 Random Fluke

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 12:26 AM

I'd probably fold here and push on the next hand to steal back my blind. I don't like risking my tournament on a coin-flip, but with the blinds this big it is basically inevitable. Still, I have found myself in this situation before and I have folded in this spot then pushed the next hand. This generally continues, one person pushing the other folding until someone wakes up with a decent enough hand to call... so I guess in that respect it still boils down to a coin-flip, who will wake up with a good hand first. Of course Gus would say it was a mistake, he lives for coin-flips. I'd probably want king high or better to call. Failing that I'd fold then push any two cards the next hand, giving him the opportunity to fold. Maybe calling is the better option, but I don't think folding and then pushing any 2 is much worse.

#22 Jubba

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 12:05 PM

AceOfSpades said:

If lets say he was sitting with Pocket Aces Or Pockey Kings...and he revealed his cards by an accident, I would've still called him.
I did that once to my friend at a home game. I had AA and he had A-6o and even after I showed him my cards he still had to think for about 5 minutes about folding.

#23 ViperX883

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 05:15 PM

I have to agree that calling is the right play. In teh situation where you only have 5 blinds left, all of the pot odds needs to be thrown out the window. If you just sit around and fold this hand, you're down to 6K to his ~75K. That would be a miracle comeback. You have to take a stand rather than let yourself get blinded to eternity.Now, let's say that you fold this hand and the push with your next and, no matter what it is, with the intention of stealing the blinds. remember that your opponent already has 1200 in from the big blind, so he only has to call 4800 for a pot of 7200. That's 3:2 and odds are you will get called with even a marginal hand. Bottom line... you WILL NOT be atealing the blinds next hand. If I'm the chip leader I call with anything in that situation. Even if I double you up, I still have ~70K to your 12K, so it is worth the risk with any hand.Now, to those of you that said to look for a better hand in the next two hands, that's impossible. What if a better hand doesn't come??? Even if it does, you are going to get called and it's unlikely that you will be too much of a favorite unless you get a very lucky deal.IMHO, you need chips immediately. With 78s I take my chances here, and especially against Antonio, who we all know can get a bit wreckless heads up. I call. Easily.

#24 Briguy

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Posted 18 March 2005 - 07:38 AM

Wlleiotl said:

Short-stacked from the earlier hand, Daniel goes all in with J-10 suited against Antonio Esfandiari's K-9. The flop comes K-9-3, giving Antonio two pair, but leaving Daniel with a gut-shot straight draw. A meaningless 4 falls on the turn, and a king on the river gives Antonio a full house and eliminates Daniel Negreanu from the tournament.
Daniel...do you think you would've survived this hand if your chipstack were 16,800 instead of 6,000? How would you and Antonio played this hand differently with a 5:1 chip disadvantage instead of a 12:1 disadvantage? I presume you would've held off on raising all-in preflop from the SB, but would you have folded if Antonio had put you all-in or raised to ~8000? Enquiring minds want to know...

#25 Random Fluke

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Posted 18 March 2005 - 11:40 PM

erp! For some reason I misread the quiz question and when i replied here I thought you were both equal in chips with huge blinds forcing a confrontation soon. I guess im dyslexic because when i read it i thought it was 7k vs 7k not 7k vs 72k. Maybe I should have read the other replies before I made mine. Anyway, being outchipped like that and with blinds so big, yeah I'd definately push here and I agree with gus that is was a mistake not to call, though I don't think it was a terrible mistake.Maybe it was my brain failing to read the extra zero on the end of antonio's stack, how could Daniel be outchipped so much by the magician! ;)Pushing any two on the next hand, as I originally suggested, would have been terrible if he outchipped you so bad; yeah you have to call here

#26 Mandelbrot

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Posted 23 March 2005 - 01:34 PM

LOL I don't believe I have ever agreed with Daniel on any of the 7 quizzes.

#27 Lucid

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 09:09 AM

As a big fan of Daniel's, I remember a tip he gave out in one of his articles on a different Website. Daniel said " you look for hands that play well after the flop." I have taken this reasoning to try and up my game to the next level. Therefore, I am wondering why some posts say to fold this hand, since you only have an eight high. With five cards to come, and with a strong possibilty you have two live cards ( which of course improve your percentages), I would play this hand like AKs. P.S. - I am always amazed at what I see the Pros play in a heads-up situation, hands that any book would tell you to fold. Thanks again for the cool Website.Lee

#28 Briguy

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 09:25 AM

Lucid said:

As a big fan of Daniel's, I remember a tip he gave out in one of his articles on a different Website. Daniel said " you look for hands that play well after the flop." I have taken this reasoning to try and up my game to the next level. Therefore, I am wondering why some posts say to fold this hand, since you only have an eight high. With five cards to come, and with a strong possibilty you have two live cards ( which of course improve your percentages), I would play this hand like AKs. P.S. - I am always amazed at what I see the Pros play in a heads-up situation, hands that any book would tell you to fold. Thanks again for the cool Website.Lee
Umm, check again. There is no opportunity for post-flop play when the other player has put you all-in preflop.

#29 Lucid

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 04:11 PM

Umm, check again. There is no opportunity for post-flop play when the other player has put you all-in preflop.[/quote]Ummm, I wasn't talking about post-flop "play" at all. Check my article again, and understand that I meant you play hands with outs that do better with five cards to come. Ummmm....

#30 Briguy

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 06:40 AM

Quote

" you look for hands that play well after the flop."
My bad. I misinterpreted "play well after the flop" as "can be played well post flop".

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 03:07 AM

Lucid]Umm, on check again. There is no opportunity for post-flop play when the other player has put you all-in preflop.[/quote, said:

Ummm, I wasn't talking about post-flop "play" at all. Check my article again, and understand that I meant you play hands with outs that do better with five cards to come. Ummmm....
Ummm, this is a really meaningless post, since all hands in hold'em are evaluated pre-flop on the basis there are 5 cards to come (there are very minor exceptions but not when you're calling an all-in). Anyone who understands the rules of Holdem will not make this mistake.And to the person who suggested to "throw all pot odds out the window" and similiar posters, I hope to play you heads up some day. You must always consider pot odds, unless you catch some ludicrously trustworthy tell.The fact that you lose future equity (the fact that now if you double up it will be for less) by folding here is the ONLY logical arguement you can make for this play. However, even considering that, I still think it is very close but not worth it. It isnt too hard to compute mathmatically. When you do, as i have done, including future equity, i think the better play is to go all in next hand unless you get dealt compete trash. Not only is your hand likely to be better, his is much much more likely to be worse, and this change is slightly worth the loss of the 2400 (with or without assuming he'll fold with a bad hand).But its really close.

#32 Lucid

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Posted 01 April 2005 - 12:57 PM

Ummm, this is a really meaningless post, since all hands in hold'em are evaluated pre-flop on the basis there are 5 cards to come (there are very minor exceptions but not when you're calling an all-in). Anyone who understands the rules of Holdem will not make this mistake. I love this guy. Thanks for the smart reply, but your reply is meaningless, cause of course all cards are evaluated pre-flop with 5 cards to comeó DUH! the example was that Daniel was holding a suited connector. Is that evaluated the same as Ace nine off with 5 cards to come? But thanks for the unnessasary smart-butt reply anyway. By the way, this forum is filled with mroe people who want to show how much they know about Poker, than anything else. I guess I fell into that catorgory too. Truth is, there are 100 ways to look at any hand, and maybe 65 of those are "right". So before we call anyone's post meaningless, maybe we should make sure we know what the guy is talking about first (Moron)

#33

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 06:10 PM

[quote name='Lucid] Thanks for the smart reply' date=' but your reply is meaningless, cause of course all cards are evaluated pre-flop with 5 cards to comeó DUH! [/quote']This didnt seem obvious to you before.[quote name='"Lucid"] Is that evaluated the same as Ace nine off with 5 cards to come? [/qoute] Assuming this was rhettorical and the answer you intended to imply was no' date=' you just contradicted yourself. If the answer you intended to imply was yes, then you just contradicted yourself . Think about it and you should be able to tell why, if you cant I'll help you.[quote name='Lucid'] But thanks for the unnessasary smart-butt reply anyway. By the way' date=' this forum is filled with mroe people who want to show how much they know about Poker, than anything else. I guess I fell into that catorgory too. Truth is, there are 100 ways to look at any hand, and maybe 65 of those are "right". So before we call anyone's post meaningless, maybe we should make sure we know what the guy is talking about first (Moron)[/quote']Speaking of meaningless, learn to tell the difference between an attack on you and an attack on your ideas. Anyone who says to concider 78s the same as AKs especially heads up deserves to be contradicted.

#34 Pokerghost2

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 10:13 PM

chips were very short here, but as a call u get zero folding equity. id rather pop all in next hand with any 2 so he has a chance to fold. i mean ur calling with 8 high. raise all in with it yes but not call.
"ive got nothing, but i hate u so i call" random internet donk

#35 plowking37

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Posted 04 July 2005 - 10:17 PM

Mathematically speaking, you should call with the 8,7 suited if you think you have at least a 41.67% chance of winning the pot. Obviously it is the correct fold if Antonio holds a high pocket pair, has him dominated, etc. But, even if Antonio held a hand as strong as Ace, King off suit (no diamond), you have a 41.9 % chance to win which is enough to make the call profitable (barely). There are relatively few hands Antonio could hold where your winning percentage will be below 41.67% compared to the vast number of hands where the winning percentage would be above 41.67% and a similar all in play would be expected.Skeptics may comment on long term tournament strategy and how to play from a short stack, but when considering if calling is a profitable play on this hand, at least a 41.67% chance to win is necessary for positive expected profits and cannot be disputed. If you don't know how to calculate this percentage, ask Daniel and maybe he'll tell you, and if he doesn't know, than he should send me an e-mail.plowking37@hotmail.com

#36 greatwhite

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 08:15 PM

This is not the spot to gamble in my view

#37 SlapStick

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 06:15 AM

NIT
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