Top Pair

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.25/$0.509 playersConverterStacks:I have about $50 (and am somewhat on tilt after this guy beat my KK with AA all in pf)He has about $200 and is by far the big stack on the tablePre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with Q A :heart:Hero raises to $2, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, 6 folds.Flop: A T 2 ($4.75, 2 players)Hero bets $3.5, MP1 raises to $7, Hero raises to $23.5, MP1 raises all-in $165.3, Hero ?? What do we think of the flop play overall? What do we do when he pushes? Ideas?

[David_Nicoson 1]

Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.25/$0.509 playersConverterStacks:I have about $50 (and am somewhat on tilt after this guy beat my KK with AA all in pf)He has about $200 and is by far the big stack on the tablePre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with Q♠ A♥ Hero raises to $2, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, 6 folds.Flop: A♠ T♠ 2♠ ($4.75, 2 players)Hero bets $3.5, MP1 raises to $7, Hero raises to $23.5, MP1 raises all-in $165.3, Hero ?? What do we think of the flop play overall? What do we do when he pushes? Ideas?

I think you re-raise the flop only if you want to stack off. As played, call getting 3:1 on your second nut draw.

[nomad_monad 0]

I think you re-raise the flop only if you want to stack off.

Doesn't this mean we might as well push against the initial raise instead of reraising to ~23 since we can't really fold against another raise? What is the value of reraising without pushing?Also, if we reraise to ~23 and just get flat called and the turn blanks, we're really stuck having to lead again for the rest of our stack with only one card to come. Finally, a flop push prices out a naked Ks draw.Given the fact that we're being offered better than 4-1 on the flop, it seems like you could make a case for just calling the initial raise here if you want to play it more conservatively. But the decision really seems to be between calling or pushing.What concerns me here, however, is that the villain minraised and basically invited you to draw. If he's a decent opponent, does he do this with anything less than the K of spades?

[David_Nicoson 1]

Doesn't this mean we might as well push against the initial raise instead of reraising to ~23 since we can't really fold against another raise? What is the value of reraising without pushing?

If our opponent is drawing, we might discourage him from calling. He'd like to see that money still in your stack to pay him after he hits rather than part of his cost to the turn.I don't think pushing is a bad option, but it's not a given.

Also, if we reraise to ~23 and just get flat called and the turn blanks, we're really stuck having to lead again for the rest of our stack with only one card to come. Finally, a flop push prices out a naked Ks draw.

I'll just offer up that a min raise from a naked K is a horrible, horrible play in NL.

Given the fact that we're being offered better than 4-1 on the flop, it seems like you could make a case for just calling the initial raise here if you want to play it more conservatively. But the decision really seems to be between calling or pushing.

Essentially. A raise on the flop commits your stack to the hand.

What concerns me here, however, is that the villain minraised and basically invited you to draw. If he's a decent opponent, does he do this with anything less than the K of spades?

I don't play any hand like the villain did, but I suspect he has the nuts.

[nomad_monad 0]

If our opponent is drawing, we might discourage him from calling. He'd like to see that money still in your stack to pay him after he hits rather than part of his cost to the turn.

Possibly. But unless we have evidence that our villain is loose, I would think that only the naked K or something like AxJs would continue here, and in most cases it seems like they just push right back, no? Against a weaker draw, we've pushed in enough of our chips already to the point where their implied odds for calling and hitting aren't really that great - 2-1 calling 16.5 vs 35 pot to see the turn and only able to win ~26 more.

I'll just offer up that a min raise from a naked K is a horrible, horrible play in NL.

No argument from me here. But I think we already have some evidence that the villain here doesn't play what you would consider optimally.

I don't play any hand like the villain did, but I suspect he has the nuts.

Yeah, the minraise here is really suspicious, which is why I might be inclined to play this hand a bit closer to the vest and just peel and re-evaluate on the turn. If not though, I think I'm just pushing.

[fckthis 0]

Well with reads, this hand could be different, but w/o I call fast. I know that in the longrun, I'll be ahead enough times here to be making a good decision.

[BIG_L_RIP 0]

"But I think we already have some evidence that the villain here doesn't play what you would consider optimally."LOL, appreciated. this hand looks familiar....you didn't do anything wrong.I hate minraising, almost never do it, but after watching you play, I figured the combo of aggro + tilt would impel you to reraise there. Turned out it was right. Had I raised to say $15, I suspect you would have flat called. When you RR'd, that made the pot sufficiently big for me to shove. In this case, it was close to 'optimal.'hard to sum up a player in one hands, gents. I was fooling around at low stakes last night, and having fun. If it's any consolation Yorke, my session ended poorly.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

LOL, appreciated. this hand looks familiar....

LOL! I didn't realize it was you.

If it's any consolation Yorke, my session ended poorly.

No way, I don't want another FCP'er to have a bad session. Your not doing well in no way gives me pleasure (though doubling through you with mid set versus bottom two did a bit, wink).

[BIG_L_RIP 0]

no problem man. I play those stakes for fun, not profit. That's why I'm always torn between trying to explain that to the table critics or just laughing at/ignoring them. When you said in chat 'you're killing me' I meant my response honestly, I meant nothing personal. There were much more annoying and enticing targets on the table.But let's be fair, I still ended up significantly in our little skirmishes :)you from NYC as well sir?

[LongLiveYorke 38]

no problem man. I play those stakes for fun, not profit. That's why I'm always torn between trying to explain that to the table critics or just laughing at/ignoring them. When you said in chat 'you're killing me' I meant my response honestly, I meant nothing personal. There were much more annoying and enticing targets on the table.But let's be fair, I still ended up significantly in our little skirmishes :)you from NYC as well sir?

Yeah, I live in Manhattan, though I'm away from the city for the summer.For the record, of the 92 hands we played together, you ended up $51.70.D'oh!

[BIG_L_RIP 0]

lol. you actually keep track of these things.yep, you dropped 2 buyins, then got one back from what i recall.In the 92 hands we played, I saw what, 85 flops? LOL.you still local? you ever back in Madhattan during the summer?

[LongLiveYorke 38]

lol. you actually keep track of these things.yep, you dropped 2 buyins, then got one back from what i recall.In the 92 hands we played, I saw what, 85 flops? LOL.you still local? you ever back in Madhattan during the summer?

Pokertracker keeps track of it for me, which is nice. Here's what you were:Voluntary put money into the pot: 53.19%Went to show down 32.69%Won money at show down 52.94%BB/100 hands 58.24So, uh, I guess you did well.I'll be back in the city in August and for the rest of the year more or less after that. Do you ever go to any local clubs?

[bdc30 0]

Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.25/$0.509 playersConverterStacks:I have about $50 Hero bets $3.5, MP1 raises to $7, Hero raises to $23.5, MP1 raises all-in $165.3, Hero ??

Half your money is in the pot already. You have no choice but to call.Why raise half your stack? Either push or fold at that point.

[BIG_L_RIP 0]

Host you coward! I sit at your table and you run off! ahahah. come on man.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Host you coward! I sit at your table and you run off! ahahah. come on man.

Sorry, didn't notice. I'm exausted from the day, I'm passing out soon.