Kk Preflop Live Hand...how Much To Re-raise?

[rusmac31 0]

went to Winstar over the weekend...had this hand come up at $200NL table $1/$2 ... 9-handed table...My stack is around $375...all the villians have between $100 - $200Reads:UTG - new to the table, young kid - no readUTG + 1 - LAG...very loose, likes to bluff at a lot of pots, plays alot of pots, not that goodUTG + 2 - TAG...fairly tight, bets his good hands...doesn't get involved preflop too much...pretty solidUTG + 3 - LAG...almost the same as UTG + 1...thinks he's a Sammy Farha clone...not very goodHero dealt KK on the buttonUTG raises to $6, UTG + 1 calls, UTG + 2 calls, UTG + 3 calls, fold, fold, Hero raises to $50Here is my question...UTG raiser and 3 limpers in front and 4 players to act behind me...the pot was $27 when I re-raised...did I raise too big...does anyone else raise a different amount...why?Thanks

[MasterLJ 0]

went to Winstar over the weekend...had this hand come up at $200NL table $1/$2 ... 9-handed table...My stack is around $375...all the villians have between $100 - $200Reads:UTG - new to the table, young kid - no readUTG + 1 - LAG...very loose, likes to bluff at a lot of pots, plays alot of pots, not that goodUTG + 2 - TAG...fairly tight, bets his good hands...doesn't get involved preflop too much...pretty solidUTG + 3 - LAG...almost the same as UTG + 1...thinks he's a Sammy Farha clone...not very goodHero dealt KK on the buttonUTG raises to $6, UTG + 1 calls, UTG + 2 calls, UTG + 3 calls, fold, fold, Hero raises to $50Here is my question...UTG raiser and 3 limpers in front and 4 players to act behind me...the pot was $27 when I re-raised...did I raise too big...does anyone else raise a different amount...why?Thanks

Meh, this is tougher than it looks imo.If this were online it'd be obvious that if anyone is calling your raise there, they'd probably call your all-in too, so you should simply push.I'm borderline live. Even though there exists circumstances where I will lead for a bet that is 8-10xBB, I still raise in proportion, sometimes even less than I do online. Online, I generally raise 3 x the bet. Live, I can't afford that a lot of the time so it's 2.5-3 if I can spare. 80% of the time I jam.All of that being said, I've played $1/$2 where leading for $20 is normal. This doesn't appear to be one of them. You have position on all these nubs, so get them into the pot. Make it $20-30 to go.Also, what kind of player are you? You have to be real with yourself. If an Ace hits, can you walk away from your $50 pre-flop bet?

[nomad_monad 0]

i think it's fine. i might even consider a push.

[nomad_monad 0]

All of that being said, I've played $1/$2 where leading for $20 is normal. This doesn't appear to be one of them. You have position on all these nubs, so get them into the pot. Make it $20-30 to go.

why so low? is it because you're thinking that since leading for low amounts is normal, it's more likely that people other than the LAG nubs will be reluctant to call 30? because if not, and you make it 30 and UTG calls, i think you're likely getting at least 2 more opponents. if you make it 30 and LAG #1 calls, TAG might come getting better than 3-1, and LAG #2 probably comes regardless. so you're looking at a 3-5 way pot with 105-153 in it. stacks being what they are, it seems like it would be difficult or impossible to price anyone out of drawing on the flop - especially if it balloons to 5-handed.

[gooch 0]

I think you have to raise it enough to price out having them all call, if its only a $30 raise and UTG calls or worse, the blinds, you have given odds to almost everyone to call, I want this hands head up, against two maybe, I like $50, maybe even $60

[rusmac31 0]

LJ...I thought about raising to $25...however, I didn't because like Nomad said, if UTG + 1 calls (which he probably would getting 2-1), all the others would call given the pot odds and the implied odds and I didn't want a 4 way pot.I figured $50 would be enough to take down a decent size pot or best case, get the initial raiser to call heads up.regarding the 2nd question...I'm probably TAG...If I bet $50 and I get 1 caller (say the initial raiser) and an A falls on the flop, it would depend on the stack size regarding folding KK...I'd probably call an allin for $50 more getting 3-1, if his stack is closer to $200...I'm probably folding figuring I've got plenty of time to get it back.If I get 4 callers and an A falls, I'll probably fold to a bet 100% of the time.

[MasterLJ 0]

LJ...I thought about raising to $25...however, I didn't because like Nomad said, if UTG + 1 calls (which he probably would getting 2-1), all the others would call given the pot odds and the implied odds and I didn't want a 4 way pot.I figured $50 would be enough to take down a decent size pot or best case, get the initial raiser to call heads up.regarding the 2nd question...I'm probably TAG...If I bet $50 and I get 1 caller (say the initial raiser) and an A falls on the flop, it would depend on the stack size regarding folding KK...I'd probably call an allin for $50 more getting 3-1, if his stack is closer to $200...I'm probably folding figuring I've got plenty of time to get it back.If I get 4 callers and an A falls, I'll probably fold to a bet 100% of the time.

I suppose I phrased my post in a way that suggests I think the $50 bet was bad. I think it was certainly a viable option. I'm torn mostly because of reads (I don't have information on your opponents like you did) on what the best course of action is. But to re-iterate, what you did is exactly how you maximize winnings with aces imo (against opponents where you have little to no read). You either win the pot right there, or you isolate and have less difficult decisions on the flop. If you took it down right there you are looking at 5-6BB (too lazy to go back and read) which is about on par with strong long-term winnings with that hand. However, if you have information about your opponents there are always alternate paths to choose that will yield in higher win-rates.I'm always amazed at how many people still call you live when you are essentially broadcasting your hand. Hell, I think you could show people what you have and they'd still call.