Three Snowmen (1/2 Pl)

[CobaltBlue 662]

I haven't played PLO in a while...so be gentle.Party 1/2 PLO (9-handed)Cobalt $192Other Stacks +$200Cobalt is CO w/ 8 8 6 5 .Pre-flop:UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, Cobalt calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB checksFlop ($15.20): K A 8 (8 players)6 checks, Cobalt bets pot, 1 fold, SB calls, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 foldTurn ($73.80): 3 (4 players)3 checks, Cobalt bets pot, 2 folds, MP1 callsRiver ($221.4): 6 (2 players)MP1 checks, Cobalt goes all-in for $101 ?Alternative lines?

[dingas 0]

I think I usually just check behind on the river since I can't imagine him calling us with anything that we beat. I'm guessing that since you posted this hand, villain had KK and just check-called all the way. If he chose to play it that way and you lost your stack, that's just one of those moments where you say 'that's poker.'

[greatwhite 0]

I'm betting this river without a read. I think it's more likely that they have 2 pair than a kings or aces here. If they have AK they will pay you off.

[amarillotg 0]

i think you can check behind on the river here.if villain is likely to be playing top 2 maybe throw a little value bet in of $50. he'll pretty much have to call.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

KK 3 combos.AK 9 combos.TJQ draws, quite likely.But from his position and reactions I think villain were more likely having the drawing hands than the other two. Bet about$50 and hopefully MP1 had hit some side cards and pay you off.

[....Ian.... 0]

depending on the flow of the game and my table image of course,but i am super prone to stickin the value bet out there. unless ytou think the all in will look more suspicious

[CobaltBlue 662]

Villain had KKxx and I felt like a donk for "overplaying" bottom set, but from what you guys are telling me, it was reasonable that I couldn't put him on that.

[Deepkoncntrtion 0]

Villain had KKxx and I felt like a donk for "overplaying" bottom set, but from what you guys are telling me, it was reasonable that I couldn't put him on that.

This was a WA/WB hand...even tho you already posted what he had; I am not using hindsight for my reply...when u have position and have a wa/wb hand you should generally check behind on 5th st., unless you have a very solid read on opp.Value betting becomes suboptimal because opp. is likely to fold if he doesnt hit his draw or repot/call with a better hand.[way ahead/way behind]

[CobaltBlue 662]

Interesting take on the hand. I've heard it in LHE and even NLHE, but I've never heard "WA/WB" applied in Omaha.

[bdc30 0]

Check river. Every time. Anything that calls crushes you,AK ain't calling here, ever.

[iggymcfly 0]

Check river. Every time. Anything that calls crushes you,AK ain't calling here, ever.

Wow, you don't play on Party much do you? To the OP, I think this is fine. There weren't a lot of draws out on the flop, so you're probably just up against either two pair or a set. (No missed draws to bluff.) Since you're going to have to call the river anyway, you mght as well just bet it yourself and get full value against two pair.

[amarillotg 0]

Since you're going to have to call the river anyway, you mght as well just bet it yourself and get full value against two pair.

he has position on the villain so he has the option of checking behind and taking a free showdown.

[iggymcfly 0]

Oops, missed that we were in position here. I'd still push. I almost never see AA or KK smooth call that turn and then check the river. Maybe if we had like $1000 behind, then it would make sense for KK to be trying not to play a too big of a pot, but there's no way you can put villian on a good set after the turn and river action.

[Deepkoncntrtion 0]

Oops, missed that we were in position here. I'd still push. I almost never see AA or KK smooth call that turn and then check the river. Maybe if we had like $1000 behind, then it would make sense for KK to be trying not to play a too big of a pot, but there's no way you can put villian on a good set after the turn and river action.

Your logic is flawed and your advice to push river is scary.

[Abbaddabba 0]

This was a WA/WB hand...even tho you already posted what he had; I am not using hindsight for my reply...when u have position and have a wa/wb hand you should generally check behind on 5th st., unless you have a very solid read on opp.

If there is such a thing was WA/WB in omaha, i dont see how it's applicable here. Considering even the biggest retard puts some action in with the stone cold nuts, this can at most be KK. He'd only have to be mildly retarded to not raise KK here at any point. And if he's retarded enough to check/call the whole way with second set on a super safe board, he's retarded enough to check/call top two the whole way.There's not a big difference between the strength of KK and AK here from his perspective - and there are far more combo's of AK than there are of KK. Only 88 and 88 alone stands between them in terms of hand strength off the flop.

Value betting becomes suboptimal because opp. is likely to fold if he doesnt hit his draw or repot/call with a better hand.

The pot is $220 at the river. Cobalt has $100 left. The other guy cant reraise us, and because the pot is so big, he will usually call with a good two pair - and virtually always call with AK.

[iggymcfly 0]

Abbadabba articulated exactly what I was trying to get across there. The main point is that there are more people stupid enough to call down with top two pair then there are people that are stupid enough not to raise a set of kings on the turn.

[Deepkoncntrtion 0]

If there is such a thing was WA/WB in omaha, i dont see how it's applicable here.

You are unable to see how bottom set on AK8 board is either way ahead of opponents calling range or way behind?

Considering even the biggest retard puts some action in with the stone cold nuts

Referring to poor omaha players as retarded makes me believe you are actually the one who suffers from cognitive deficiencies.

He'd only have to be mildly retarded to not raise KK here at any point. And if he's retarded enough to check/call the whole way with second set on a super safe board, he's retarded enough to check/call top two the whole way.

Again, this is flawed logic...you've created this stereotype of a poor omaha player and applied to it your reasoning. This player is simply c/c middle set OOP. There is no way you can conclude from his actions that he also c/c top 2 pair. Advocating pushing the river would be fine if your read on that particular opp. warranted it. However, if you have never seen opp. stack off w. top 2 pair, it is illogical to assume that he will.

[Abbaddabba 0]

Again, this is flawed logic...you've created this stereotype of a poor omaha player and applied to it your reasoning. This player is simply c/c middle set OOP. There is no way you can conclude from his actions that he also c/c top 2 pair. Advocating pushing the river would be fine if your read on that particular opp. warranted it. However, if you have never seen opp. stack off w. top 2 pair, it is illogical to assume that he will.

Im basing it on what we already know.Check/calling the turn with second set is not that far away from check/calling the turn with top two. There is only one hand and one hand alone that separates them in strength and that is precisely 88. The biggest difference is that it's 3 times more likely that he would be dealt AK preflop than KK, and because there was no raise preflop, each combo of KK can be discounted even further.You've created an image of how you think he is based on how you think he SHOULD play.

[timwakefield 69]

With no reads I am checking the river. If I read him as a donkey I would push on the river, but I don't think most players would overplay AK like that.