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Getting Agressive With An Underpair


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#1 jjdylan

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 09:14 AM

Full Tilt Poker
$2/$4 Limit Holdem Ring game
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) jjdylan is BB with 9 icon_suit_diamond.gif 9 icon_suit_spade.gif
UTG, folds, CO (poster) checks, Button raises to $4, SB folds, jjdylan calls, CO calls.

Flop: 6 icon_suit_spade.gif J icon_suit_club.gif 6 icon_suit_club.gif ($13, 3 players)
jjdylan checks, CO checks, Button bets $2, jjdylan raises to $4, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: 4 icon_suit_spade.gif ($25, 3 players)
jjdylan bets $4, CO calls, Button folds.

River: 8 icon_suit_diamond.gif ($33, 2 players)
jjdylan checks, CO checks.

Results:
Final pot: $33


The Preflop raiser was kinda loose, somethin like a 44/24 after 150 hands or so. No read on the CO as he just posted.
- Jay


Where i complain about poker: http://jjdylan.blogspot.com/ (actually updated!)

#2 AlphaOmega

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 10:23 AM

Three-bet pre-flop. You'd like to get this HU with the maniac, and even if CO doesn't fold for two cold, you still have an equity edge to pound.

Given that you didn't, I like your post-flop play. I think check/calling is better on this river against this particular opponent because we are giving him a chance to bluff a missed draw, and he probably bets a second best hand often enough when checked to so we don't really miss value. Against a calling station, bet the river.

Let's say you three-bet pre-flop, and lose CO. What is your plan if you bet the flop and get raised by this opponent?

#3 jjdylan

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 10:36 AM

QUOTE (AlphaOmega @ Friday, June 2nd, 2006, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Let's say you three-bet pre-flop, and lose CO. What is your plan if you bet the flop and get raised by this opponent?


I'll preface this responce by saying the situation you put me in is one of the weakest parts of my game, so id appreciate the help with this one wink.gif

Id probably call the raise and re-evaluate the turn. Given that he was kinda LAG, i cant be to confident that he has me beat at this point. So i think as long as the turn and river we're below a Jack id check/call him down.

3betting him would also be a possibility, but i dont know...i think im one of the more agressive players i know, or have seen at the tables (other than utter maniacs) and i think this line is a little over agressive. The chances of him folding are slim to none, especially now that hes shown agression, and my hand is pretty vulnerable to any broadway card that hits the turn or river. Although i have a strong feeling that you're going to point out why this is the better line to take, lol
- Jay


Where i complain about poker: http://jjdylan.blogspot.com/ (actually updated!)

#4 AlphaOmega

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 10:58 AM

QUOTE (jjdylan @ Friday, June 2nd, 2006, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
3betting him would also be a possibility, but i dont know...i think im one of the more agressive players i know, or have seen at the tables (other than utter maniacs) and i think this line is a little over agressive. The chances of him folding are slim to none, especially now that hes shown agression, and my hand is pretty vulnerable to any broadway card that hits the turn or river. Although i have a strong feeling that you're going to point out why this is the better line to take, lol


3-betting would be the best choice in my opinion. I noticed that you mentioned fold equity, but we don't necessarily want him to fold. We have value in three-betting. This is because a LAG will raise this flop with a ton of hands, including flush draws, lower pocket pairs, overcards, etc. For this reason, if we just call his raise, we should fully prepare to donk most turns since a lot of the hands in his hand range aren't following through with a turn bet, and we lose value by allowing him to catch up for free.

I think you'll get better at these things with experience. One of the things that a lot of new SH players find out later than they should is that flop raises by LAGs shouldn't be taken that seriously. You may also be having trouble with opponent specific type hands where hand ranges alter and change drastically as the hand develops. If a calling station raises this flop then the hand plays out very differently.

Next session, or from your PT database, notice how you are playing your pocket pairs, and if you don't mind, post some more of those hands. Pocket pair hands generally employ a ton of SHLHE concepts, and you can strengthen your grasp of these things by observing how you are playing them, and hearing what we think of it.

#5 CoranMoran

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 01:03 PM

QUOTE
Three-bet pre-flop. You'd like to get this HU with the maniac, and even if CO doesn't fold for two cold, you still have an equity edge to pound.


This hand is way easier if you follow this advice.

So many good things come from the preflop 3bet.
And that flop works well for you if you were the preflop aggressor.

--cm

#6 jjdylan

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 06:22 PM

OK, wow....i totally read you wrong earlier. I thought you were talking about leading the flop and 3betting a raise there. 3 betting preflop in this situation is something i do every now and then, apparently i should be doing it more often.

Say i do 3bet him here preflop, i lead this flop and he raises. Are you 3 betting again on the flop? what if he just calls? how does the rest of the hand play out?


I'll dig up some more PP hands and try to post them later tonight or tomorrow...but thanks to all you guys helpin me out here
- Jay


Where i complain about poker: http://jjdylan.blogspot.com/ (actually updated!)

#7 Steppin Razor

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 07:32 PM

QUOTE (jjdylan @ Friday, June 2nd, 2006, 6:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Say i do 3bet him here preflop, i lead this flop and he raises. Are you 3 betting again on the flop? what if he just calls? how does the rest of the hand play out?

Most likely. Lead the turn. Unless he has a 6, he is most likely to just call the turn. If he's not a LAG, you could bet/fold the turn.

#8 Knight_Owl

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 09:36 PM

QUOTE (CoranMoran @ Friday, June 2nd, 2006, 2:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This hand is way easier if you follow this advice.

So many good things come from the preflop 3bet.
And that flop works well for you if you were the preflop aggressor.

--cm


Yes, Def 3 bet! Take Control of this Hand! if I get raised on flop I'll 3 bet, just my style and follow through on turn if I get raised than I fold. Most players especilay lag will raise if betted into on flop, w/ anything! Once again like mentioned before dont give these lag players much credit! Get as many bets in that pot and take control! GL
Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, the mind can achieve.
~ Dr. Napoleon Hill




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