16 replies to this topic

[shpaget]

$1000 buy-in live tourney...3 day event.

130 players play day one down to 10.
130 players play day two down to 10.

I come out of day two 2nd in chips, 4th overall.

Prize structure is as follows:

1. $70,000.00
2. $47,780.00
3. $32,050.00
4. $20,980.00
5. $13,980.00
6. $9,320.00
7. $5,820.00
8. $4,660.00
9. $4,080.00
10. $3,490.00
11. $2,790.00
12. $2,790.00
13. $2,090.00
14. $2,090.00
15. $2,090.00
16. $2,090.00
17. $1,750.00
18. $1,750.00
19. $1,750.00
20. $1,750.00

So, day three everyone pays, and as luck would have it, at the end of each day two people busted on the bubble, so places 19 and 20 have already paid out.

We draw for our seats and the top four chip leaders get the same table...

seat 1 250000
seat 2 220000
seat 3 205000
seat 7 185000 me

blinds are 4000/8000, I can't remember the ante...probably 400ish.

Average chip stack is ~140000.

The chip leader has played the first 3 of the first four pots and won them - he quite loose and very aggressive...I won the other by raising pf to 25k and everyone folding. So he's over 300k, I'm about 200k.

Fifth hand...I'm in the BB...17 people left.

Fold.Fold. Chip leader raises to 25k (again)....folds to me...I call with T J

Good? Acceptable? Bad? Terrible? Should I be tangling with the chip leader with TcJc OOP to begin with?

Pot is ~55k

Flop comes: A T 4

I bet 50k.

Thoughts? I want to see if he has an ace, and represent one myself - should bet have been smaller?...is checking to the pf raiser better, with the intent of pushing all-in? Anyone just lead push?

He raises to 150k...

well, I guess he has an ace, or he's got balls of steel...it's either all-in or fold now.

With 14 outs twice, is now my time, or, with an M of 10, can I wait?

Thanks

[Jdr999]

I think the call pre-flop is fine.

As for the flop, if I have seen the chip leader raise pre-flop and bet the flop often, I would check-raise. They don't need to have an ace to do so, you don't commit yourself if you bet out and they raise, and you have fold equity. They could bet this flop with Kings-Jacks & 9's-5's, K-Q, K-J, and will likely fold to the check-raise.

As for your play, I don't mind leading out. If you are raised, you are likely beat, but have to call with your 2nd pair and flush draw, and a backdoor straight draw. You are getting great odds; have to call the rest of your 110K to win a pot of 370K and will have a huge chip lead if you win the hand. Easy call.

[GrinderMJ]

i don't mind taking this flop against the player you described, for the simple fact you have the perfect time of hand to hit a huge flop and potentially double through the chip leader and cruise to a big finish. That being said, if you are making this call preflop, you have to realize that a flop of jxx or 10xx isn't strong enough to play a big pot with.
As far as the flop, I am a fan of check raising here. He is almost 100% to c-bet whatever he holds, and you have a perfect hand to check raise with.

[Rocketwadster]

For me personally (which I am sure the majority of the regular posters know my style nearing the end of a tourney), I definately wouldn't have gotten involved in this hand in the first place, against an opponent who can bust me, when out of position. The final table is where the real money is, and you can practically coast to probably at least 14th right now, barring some weird circumstances. Im not advocating coasting per se, but rather am implying that you have plenty of chips that don't need to be getting involved with mediocre holdings in poor position against other larger stacks. If you run card dead for a while, you aren't that worried is all I am saying there.

Why butt heads with the other chip leaders when there are much smaller stacks out there who are in survival mode? Pressure them, not the loose aggressive types with lots of chips.

Since you did decide to tangle with this opponent, from what you have described, he is almost certain to be betting that flop, setting up a near ideal check-raise opportunity for ALL your chips. If he folds, great, and it is doubtful that many observant opponents would want to tangle with you for a while. If he doesn't fold, you have a ton of outs available to double up to the chip lead right here, which will give you a commanding stack that you can use to great effect against almost ALL opponents.

Since you didn't opt for the check-raise, you could still push here, but your opponent (depending on his actual holdings) may feel that he has the correct pot odds to call, which is okay, but I really think you want to win this pot uncontested right here.

[throwemaway]

When a player is playing super fast and aggressive, I'm not sure if calling to pf oop is the best way to defend against him...

Betting out on the flop and then getting raised is exactly why...Since he is playing fast and loose, you can't be sure whether or not he has the ace, so it really puts you in a difficult spot..Whether or not he had the Ace, he was probably going to raise you regardless, judging by your description

In that case, I think the c/r is the best play

Best of luck though, some big cash on the line

[cdipierr]

First of all, congrats on getting this far.

I think whether or not you play this hand depends on your goal. If you're playing for the win, then I think the PF call is fine. I agree that a check raise is the right play on that flop, but you have to call once the chipleader commits.

One thing I'm curious about though...when you first setup the 4 chipleaders, you basically said that no one had more than double the average stack. To me this implies there's no real short stacks, or at least not more than 1 or 2. Is this the case? If it is, then I think playing TJs here is the right play since you're not going to be picking off many short stacks anyway.

I'll admit it would suck for the guy to have an A here and for you not to improve, but what can you do.

[shpaget]

First of all, congrats on getting this far.

I think whether or not you play this hand depends on your goal. If you're playing for the win, then I think the PF call is fine. I agree that a check raise is the right play on that flop, but you have to call once the chipleader commits.

One thing I'm curious about though...when you first setup the 4 chipleaders, you basically said that no one had more than double the average stack. To me this implies there's no real short stacks, or at least not more than 1 or 2. Is this the case? If it is, then I think playing TJs here is the right play since you're not going to be picking off many short stacks anyway.

I'll admit it would suck for the guy to have an A here and for you not to improve, but what can you do.

If I recall there were 4 or 5 people with under 70k in chips, but only one at my table...only a couple with under 30k and one busted out at the other table the hand before mine.

[mk]

I would've folded preflop, but since you didn't I think a stop and go is the best play. Just move in on the flop. You're a coinflip against most hands that will call, so why not maximize your FE?

[Actuary]

I would've folded preflop, but since you didn't I think a stop and go is the best play. Just move in on the flop. You're a coinflip against most hands that will call, so why not maximize your FE?

bingo.

If you're not pushing this flop..why call preflop with J high OOP, HU?

Start stealing yourself, not by messing with chipleader.


ps. I've never had succes representing an Ace against a chipleader who is bullying everyone...he'll put you to the test to often. Take that option out of his hands

[shpaget]

Thanks all.

Results:





I push, he calls the remaining little bit.

He turns over Ad8c ...wow, pretty aggressive flop play...also takes one of my outs, but it's a coin flip.

Turn 4d , river 5s

I go home with $1750...he goes on to win the $70000.

[Rocketwadster]

All I can say is WOW!

[Actuary]

bummer.

congrats though.

wonder if he folds to an open push?

[shpaget]

bummer.

congrats though.

wonder if he folds to an open push?

If I had to guess, for this particular player, once we got to this flop, all my chips were going in the middle with his - I think he calls a c/r and I believe he calls an open push.

I think he simply felt his A was good, regardless of kicker....

Or that's what I tell myself to keep my sanity.

My first thought, in the hand, was to push, and I decided to bet the pot.

Afterwards I kicked myself for not check raising and I think, long term (against multiple aggressive chipleaders, not him) it's the best play.

[gobears]

If I had to guess, for this particular player, once we got to this flop, all my chips were going in the middle with his - I think he calls a c/r and I believe he calls an open push.

I think he simply felt his A was good, regardless of kicker....

Or that's what I tell myself to keep my sanity.

My first thought, in the hand, was to push, and I decided to bet the pot.

Afterwards I kicked myself for not check raising and I think, long term (against multiple aggressive chipleaders, not him) it's the best play.

Once that flop hits you - the only decision for me would be choosing between the open push and the c/r. With this opponent, based on your read, it wouldn't have mattered I agree.

I think that I lean towards the open push because of stack sizes though - if you go for the c/r in this situation, villain will have put a substantial amount of his chip stack into the pot and be less likely to fold unless he has air.

With the open push, a good player would be more likely to let go of a hand like A8.

[SavageHenry]

I think your mistake was just calling his raise preflop and playing hit to win with J10s. Re-raise him pre-flop and take control of the pot. J10s is not so hot in HU pot oop. Or fold.

C/R is probably your best bet on the flop though i think this guy was bent on seeing this one to the end. Tough luck.

I think this type of hand is where the old school brick and mortar pros and the new school online players diverge. Online players drool over draws like this and would eagerly shove in all their chips after all another tourney is a click away. The old school players would like the draw and all the chips may end up in the pot but they'd hate having to do it and may even fold when reraised in...ie Doyle's recollection in SS of Hellmuth mucking a open ended Straight flush draw when faced for a bet for all his chips early in a tourney.

In theory the hand should play the same online or live but i'd wager it wouldn't when you've been playing 12 hours a day for 5 days in a live tourney and the next tourney is half way around the world 3 weeks later.

[blakheart]

bingo.

If you're not pushing this flop..why call preflop with J high OOP, HU?

Start stealing yourself, not by messing with chipleader.
ps. I've never had succes representing an Ace against a chipleader who is bullying everyone...he'll put you to the test to often. Take that option out of his hands

This is the right answer- He may lay down to an aggressive push on that flop, I think you call the preflop raise simply to push this kind of flop. He will learn to step lightly around you, you have a lot of FE on him.

Edit- Just read results. I still stick with pushing back at him at some point. You could either reraise preflop or jam the flop. By betting $50k, he thinks you have the ability to fold here. I would rather bluff with a draw then call, so I would jam this on the flop.

Either way great job on getting this far. that is a tremendous run against a decent sized field. nice job.

[Actuary]

fwiw, I would fold preflop.
But post flop, I open push.

I'd want to avoid big stack, yet if my goal is 1st place, the flop is where I'd gamble with this strong hand/draw.