Big Hand, Bigger Draw

[amarillotg 0]

Full Tilt PokerPot Limit Omaha Ring gameBlinds: $0.10/$0.257 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $62.55UTG+1: $0MP1: $38.80amarillofcp: $25Button: $9.65SB: $68.75BB: $28.25Pre-flop: (7 players) amarillofcp is CO with A 8 K K UTG calls, MP1 folds, amarillofcp raises to $1.1, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.Flop: Q T K ($4.4, 4 players)SB bets $2.2, BB calls, UTG calls, amarillofcp calls.Turn: 7 ($13.2, 4 players)SB bets $4, BB calls, UTG calls, amarillofcp raises all-in $21.7too aggy on the turn i assume?

[gobears 0]

If I counted right - 23 cards either give you the pot or part of it and 21 cards don't.Push is fine to me with that monster draw.

[dingas 0]

Hmm. . the problem with this play is that you may knock out people with two pair and low flush draws while getting heads up against a made straight. Maybe making a smaller raise would be better.

[amarillotg 0]

If I counted right - 23 cards either give you the pot or part of it and 21 cards don't.Push is fine to me with that monster draw.

im only counting 20 outs to win or split.4 J's1 K3 T's3 Q's3 7's6 's (3 of the other 's are already counted)= 20 outsam i missing some?running it through cardplayers omaha calculator, if im up against a made nut straight (which i figured i was) im 40% to win and 5% to tie.thats assuming if i push i only get called in one spot. (which i was also pretty sure of)so if i push the turn and get called in 1 spot by the nuts, the pot is laying me 2.16-1 on the play and im a 3-2 dog to scoop the whole pot.so i guess its good?

[dingas 0]

After thinking about it, I think raising is a big mistake. Calling is much better. You don't want to raise to knock out someon with bottom two pair and a 4high flush draw, you want him in so he will pay you off on the river. You even said yourself that you're a dog to a made straight. Given the action it's unlikely that two people have the nuts, so you're not getting multiple callers here. . what could they possibly call you with? So why are you pushing when only the person who is ahead of you will call you?

[amarillotg 0]

After thinking about it, I think raising is a big mistake. Calling is much better. You don't want to raise to knock out someon with bottom two pair and a 4high flush draw, you want him in so he will pay you off on the river. You even said yourself that you're a dog to a made straight. Given the action it's unlikely that two people have the nuts, so you're not getting multiple callers here. . what could they possibly call you with? So why are you pushing when only the person who is ahead of you will call you?

good point.

[gobears 0]

im only counting 20 outs to win or split.4 J's1 K3 T's3 Q's3 7's6 's (3 of the other 's are already counted)= 20 outsam i missing some?

I was counting the three aces as I didn't think that someone would play pocket aces that way plus you have one in your hand.I read Dingas' comments, and I like his line. We're probably behind and need to hit one of our many outs, so we want to keep as many players in as possible.If someone has a straight, they are not folding so we want to keep as many of the other players in as possible

[Rocketwadster 0]

Aren't you going to be chasing away the very hands you want in against you (when you hit on the river) if you push there?