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Plohl Hand Strategy


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#61 JBradburn6

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 03:04 PM

It depends on the size of the pot. If it's one of those pots big enough to put big plants in, I'd reraise, but probably only the size of a small vase. Anything more and your reverse implied odds on it blowing up in the kiln doesn't make it worth it.

#62 dms26

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 05:41 PM

View Postrbakken2504, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 4:47 PM, said:

Here are the numbers from cardplayer, your %'s:Scoop: 25%Hi: 45%Lo: 0%EE: 35%His:Scoop: 55%Hi: 55%Lo: 52%EE: 65%Now, he is a 30% favorite to scoop, a 10% favorite to win the high, and freerolling at the low, with AA26. If you play this hand out 100 times, you will lose $500, assuming the pot is $100, if he doesn't fold. Now if you do get him to fold, you are only making $10, risking $15 more to get him to fold, but essentially your whole stack. So if he fold 1 in 10 times, you are still losing $400, hmmmm, looks like a losing play to me...NM, Turd was making the same point, I didn't read his posts first, sorry Turd.
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QUOTE (CozMyn @ Sunday, March 8th, 2009, 5:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i tried to talk here about that program, the RNG , not to talk about when to accept all in without to see flop.
You can accept all in whenever you want, or whenever you feel lucky, but in virtual room's is not like in reality. In reality anything is possible... in virtual rooms you can be "the one" who knows the future, or who can change the future.

#63 kers2

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 07:36 PM

Gold Dustin... gold
QUOTE(DinkDonk @ Thursday, September 4th, 2008, 12:40 PM) View Post
I guess this is all unnecessary rambling because Hollywood personifies something I hate about most people. He can take valuable knowledge, stare it right in the fucking face and never let a single sentence absorb into his brain.

#64 Tantalar

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:04 PM

My arguement was, and is still that KQ108 DS is not that much of an underdog at all to AK26, NOT AA26. Similar to AK vs QQ. Despite the fact that everyone always goes all in pre flop as only a 43% dog to QQ. my EE with KQ108 is 44% vs AK26, which is the hand that I was talking about. Nowhere did I say that I willingly will face off against AA26 holding KQ108, and be the favorite. I was comparing AK26 to KQ108 DS. If everyone read the whole thread they would understand that im compairing those two hands. So stop bringing up AA26. We all know it is a decent sized favorite
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#65 dingas

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 10:08 PM

My arguement was, and is still that KQ108 DS is not that much of an underdog at all to AK26, NOT AA26. What's your point? How does this justify your play? You made a wild guess that your opponent had AK26 and thought you could push him off with a raise. You were wrong.Similar to AK vs QQ. Despite the fact that everyone always goes all in pre flop as only a 43% dog to QQ. my EE with KQ108 is 44% vs AK26, which is the hand that I was talking about.This is a completely different situation. First of all you are comparing tournaments to ring games, secondly, it's not a good strategy in either to get all in with AK vs. QQ. Usually when this happens, the player with AK will be pushing and hoping that the player with QQ has a lower pocket pair and will fold. Between the fold equity and the chance of winning the hand, this is a good play. If you knew your opponent had QQ and would call, moving in would be a very bad play.In this example, you should have known that your opponent would call you with any hand he was ready to raise with. So therefore, your play was bad.
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#66 Tantalar

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 06:21 AM

I understand what your saying. If I knew he would call every time I wouldnt do it. The difference is, mot of the time he re raises me, and whenever I go all in he folds, but only calls with AA23, AA24,AA25,AA26,AA27,AA28 I know for sure he has one of those, or a hand such as AK23 -AK28/AK102-AKQ2 (which he cant call my all in with) If I didnt know the player very well I wouldnt try the play. If it was some random person ive never played with, I certainly wouldnt have made the play. If I hadnt been studying the player and remembering how he played PLOHL8 I would have folded easily. My arguement is the same as any arguement of bluffing someone. If the flop comes 9103 and your opponent has 99AA and you have KK9A and he tries to trap you into raising so he can check raise becuase he knows your super aggressive. The turn brings a J and he bets the pot instantly. You think he most likely wanted you to raise so he could check raise, which means you know he had a good hand on the flop, but most likely not a straight. He had a good hand on the flop because he really didnt want to see a card like that on the turn. So you raise the pot, showing that you most likely have a straight, maybe even a set of Js witht he free card you think hes going to call? Lets say he makes a good call and If an 8 comes on the river is he going to call your all in? No, becuase the only hand he can realistically call you with is MAYBE a weak straight if he doesnt think you have the nut straight already. On the river your drawing for only a K to take down the pot with the best hand, but that doesnt mean you cant take advantage of your knowledge of the player and use it to your advantage.Like I said, its a sophisticated play against a good player. The type of player who he himself is at the level of thinking ( I think hes just raising because he raises every pot. If I raise him here, I think I can take down this pot. Hopefully he doesnt know that I think hes weak and thats the only reason im making this play.) Im at the level of playing the player not the cards. Most of the time, he folds and I take down a big pot. Hes the only player that I play with who I know would fold pre flop, so I do it to him. When you play an agressive player your supposed to raise more often with weaker hands. My arguement is, if you have 88 in a 5 handed game, and the loose player bets from EP and you raise from LP and he goes all in for a lot more, your not seriously going to call are you? Its better to wait for all the times when I fold, and take all those chips during those times, rather than gambling on what could be a race at best. Who wants to gamble anyway? The person who decides is the person who calls the all in. The more than I put players to a decision, the easier it is. I make my profits from stealing a lot of pots. In cash games, you have to be aggressive and take advantage in every way you can, even if its only 1-2% profits, with very large swings of variance because of the agressiveness.
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#67 turd ferguson

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 10:42 AM

Basically, what you're telling us is that you made a terrible read and got your money in as a significant dog. You still haven't answered the question about why you didn't just muck KQ108 in early position though. I think the only justification you gave was that it is a "very pretty hand." You got anything better than that or are you just doomed to suck at poker for life?

#68 rbakken2504

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 11:18 AM

First off, you need to stop comparing this situation to a Hold'em situation, they're two totally different games, because of this reason, you are NEVER dominated preflop in omaha, so when someone reraises you, and you try to push them off their hand giving them 2 to 1, when they have half their stack invested already they aren't going to fold, so there isn't much fold equity in this play. Omaha is a game you don't really wanna push the action preflop, you'd like to make all your moves after the flop, when you can have someone drawing slim. Being that your fold equity is so diminished, pushing with KQ108 being a 45% dog isn't an optimal play.

#69 Chamonyx

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 12:14 PM

View PostTantalar, on Friday, June 2nd, 2006, 8:21 AM, said:

Like I said, its a sophisticated play against a good player.
Hmm, then it is probably wasted at the 0.5/$1 tables. In fact it is way above any level I have seen or played at.

Quote

The type of player who he himself is at the level of thinking ( I think hes just raising because he raises every pot.
He's not just raising here. He's max-re-raising after a max raise and 4 callers. I think he's raising because he has an idea of how to win money at generally passive low limits and he recognizes that he has a donkey who appears to like his hand, whom he is way ahead of and who he has position on. He probably expected (and would have preferred) you to just call his bet, the other fish to fold and he would then have put you all-in on the flop unless it was something stupid. But when you give him the chance to go all-in pre-flop, why not. You had the option to call and see a flop - and there are quite a few flops where you are ahead of him - following which you could punish him or take the option to fold for a minor loss; but you decided to throw away that option.

Quote

When you play an agressive player your supposed to raise more often with weaker hands. My arguement is, if you have 88 in a 5 handed game, and the loose player bets from EP and you raise from LP and he goes all in for a lot more, your not seriously going to call are you?
But we are not talking about a load of limpers here - or HE for that matter .....oh, why bother, you're not listening.Come play B)

#70 cdddc75

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 02:53 PM

View PostTantalar, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 12:14 PM, said:

Just goes to show how many of you truely undervalue a hand like KQ108 DS. Being afraid to gamble when your a slight favorite/slight dog is the mark of a bad player. I bet 90% of you are the type of player who check calls/ is afraid to go all in on the flop with an open ended straight flush draw too. Saying it is an aggressive, wreckless play is one thing, but calling it a BAD play is harsh and unacceptable, not to mention foolish. Again, go check the EE and ask yourself "Why do I re raise someone who has QQ when I have AK, and why do i go all in pre flop with it in holdem" its the same basic mathematical concept.
Hello. I can't see my opponent's hand to know that he has QQ. Nice try though.Being willing to put in all your chips when you know you are an underdog and are likely to get called is -EV in a cash game.Thank you for making my day, Tantafarrell20.
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#71 mrdannyg

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 02:33 PM

bump
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#72 Wintermute

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 03:35 PM

View PostTantalar, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 7:14 AM, said:

thing is, it was double suited. I forgot to leave out that it was 5 handed. Im a loose aggressive player. And honostly, its a big drawing hand. Im not some tightass who folds everything except for AA, KK with low potential. I cant believe how many people think it is garbage becuase it certainly is a very pretty hand. PLO is a drawing game, not a omg I have AA I win every time. AA isnt always the favorite, KK certainly isnt so hot either. I read an article on one of those full tilt poker "lessons" saying how in PLO8 hands like K10Q8 double suited are very powerful becuase when you hit with them, you arent going to split the pot. Im no mathematician, but the 57% edge must boil down to a coinflip/slight favorite for all the hands where the board will be QQ358 so AA23 splits the pot with me. More likely than not, the board will be either 225KA, QQ103K, KK789, 23A7Q. It will RARELY be something that gives me the high, and him the low. If I had a hand like 6789 double suited, I could easily understand the logic that you are all trying to explain, becuase the outs that correspond with me having the winning high hand more often than not will give him the low, meaning that it is CERTAINLY -ev to go all in with a hand like that, But as we all know, 6789 double suited is one of the only type of hands better than AAxx in PLO non high lowBasically the question at hand is, is QK108 double suited going to scoop more often than 93% when I hit the high? I think its gotta be pretty close. If we assume that I can get the TAG player to fold pre flop at least 1/5 times, and i win everything in the pot pre flop, it is DEFINATLY +EV
You are a FU.CKING idiot.

#73 predator06

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 06:52 AM

This reminds me of "THAT GUY" who goes all in preflop in NLO8 every hand because no hand is THAT much of an underdog in O8.

#74 Wintermute

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 03:14 PM

View Postpredator06, on Tuesday, November 21st, 2006, 7:52 AM, said:

This reminds me of "THAT GUY" who goes all in preflop in NLO8 every hand because no hand is THAT much of an underdog in O8.
Make no mistake, I don't advocate going all in from a strategy standpoint. It's obviously -EV.However, if you're trying to have a good time and torture nits and the money doesn't matter to you at all, that's a different story...




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