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Plohl Hand Strategy


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#21 blakheart

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 08:20 AM

That is a hand you may want to see a flop with, but it is not a raising hand for sure. High only hands are marginal in O8b to begin with, and that is one without a lot of nut potential. You are double suited, but you don't have nut flush possiblity. You are playing for straights, but King high straight could be beat by Ace high straight. In O8b you really don't want ot make 2nd best hands if you can not getaway from them. This feels like a hand the can cost you a lot of money. Me- I fold this preflop in EP almost every time.

#22 JBradburn6

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 08:34 AM

View PostTantalar, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 10:14 AM, said:

thing is, it was double suited. I forgot to leave out that it was 5 handed. Im a loose aggressive player. And honostly, its a big drawing hand. Im not some tightass who folds everything except for AA, KK with low potential. I cant believe how many people think it is garbage becuase it certainly is a very pretty hand. PLO is a drawing game, not a omg I have AA I win every time. AA isnt always the favorite, KK certainly isnt so hot either. I read an article on one of those full tilt poker "lessons" saying how in PLO8 hands like K10Q8 double suited are very powerful becuase when you hit with them, you arent going to split the pot. Im no mathematician, but the 57% edge must boil down to a coinflip/slight favorite for all the hands where the board will be QQ358 so AA23 splits the pot with me. More likely than not, the board will be either 225KA, QQ103K, KK789, 23A7Q. It will RARELY be something that gives me the high, and him the low. If I had a hand like 6789 double suited, I could easily understand the logic that you are all trying to explain, becuase the outs that correspond with me having the winning high hand more often than not will give him the low, meaning that it is CERTAINLY -ev to go all in with a hand like that, But as we all know, 6789 double suited is one of the only type of hands better than AAxx in PLO non high lowBasically the question at hand is, is QK108 double suited going to scoop more often than 93% when I hit the high? I think its gotta be pretty close. If we assume that I can get the TAG player to fold pre flop at least 1/5 times, and i win everything in the pot pre flop, it is DEFINATLY +EV
I'll put this in terms you would understand: PLO and PLO8 are completely different, like how ceramic statues are completely different than plastic statues.PS You definitely didn't need to change the size of your words. We can read.

#23 turd ferguson

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:08 AM

View PostTantalar, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 7:14 AM, said:

thing is, it was double sooooooted. I forgot to leave out that it was 5 handed. Im a loose aggressive player with a very poor concept of the game. And honostly, its a big drawing hand in Omaha Hi, but an absolutely terrible hand in 8ob. Im not some good player who folds everything except for AA, KK with low potential. I cant believe how many people think it is garbage becuase it certainly is a very pretty hand (brilliant analysis). PLO is a drawing game, not a omg I have AA I win every time. AA isnt always the favorite, KK certainly isnt so hot either.
I don't even know where to begin here. Let me fix a few things first. The point of a hi/low game is to give yourself a chance to scoop the entire pot. When you put yourself in a position where you can win only one side your opponnent is essentially frerolling on your for half the pot.

View PostTantalar, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 7:14 AM, said:

I read an article on one of those full tilt poker "lessons" saying how in PLO8 hands like K10Q8 double suited are very powerful becuase when you hit with them, you arent going to split the pot.
This assumes that you see a flop cheaply first, numbnuts. I guess getting it all in preflop with no chance at the low side of the pot is a good option too though.

View PostTantalar, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 7:14 AM, said:

Basically the question at hand is, is QK108 double suited going to scoop more often than 93% when I hit the high? I think its gotta be pretty close. If we assume that I can get the TAG player to fold pre flop at least 1/5 times, and i win everything in the pot pre flop, it is DEFINATLY +EV
Where exactly did you get that 93% number because it smells like shit. Good spelling.

#24 Habs Fan

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:13 AM

5 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)4 Members: Hobbes, Habs Fan, Bizzle, turd fergusonPerfect.
...

#25 ajs510

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:17 AM

View PostHabs Fan, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 1:13 PM, said:

6 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)6 Members: ajs510, Lolli, Ouch-8s, speedz99, Napa_Don, RhinestoneCowboyPerfect.
FYP, and god damnit.

#26 speedz99

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:17 AM

I refuse to believe that anyone can a. be so bad at pokerand b. defend their play when told by everyone that it was horribleI just don't get it.Stick to pottery. Freakin' DN fanboy...wait a minute...
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#27 turd ferguson

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:19 AM

View Postspeedz99, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 10:17 AM, said:

Freakin' DN fanboy...wait a minute...
Bahahaha

#28 RhinestoneCowboy

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:19 AM

There is actually an o/8 calculator. His expected equity is 44.2%DN Fanboy...BHAHBHABHBHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAINTERNETLAUGHINGHAHAHAAH
QUOTE(Shimmering Wang @ Monday, January 1st, 2007, 1:49 PM) View Post
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QUOTE(astros11ss @ Monday, September 24th, 2007, 10:00 AM) View Post
i fucking got 4th in the tilt mulligan and 2nd in the bodog 100k... life fucking tilt


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Shaving your legs feels really good


#29 kers2

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:22 AM

View Postturd ferguson, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 1:08 PM, said:

I don't even know where to begin here. Let me fix a few things first. The point of a hi/low game is to give yourself a chance to scoop the entire pot. When you put yourself in a position where you can win only one side your opponnent is essentially frerolling on your for half the pot.
THANK YOUThis is ridiculousness. My head is about to explode. Tantalar you are very fluent in donkspeak. You throw out percentages and numbers but you really have no fucking clue what you're talking about.Trust usAnd dont make pottery. Its gey

View Postspeedz99, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 1:17 PM, said:

c u in 4minutes dan
FYP
QUOTE(DinkDonk @ Thursday, September 4th, 2008, 12:40 PM) View Post
I guess this is all unnecessary rambling because Hollywood personifies something I hate about most people. He can take valuable knowledge, stare it right in the fucking face and never let a single sentence absorb into his brain.

#30 keith crime

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 10:27 AM

From now on all flames on this site should end with

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And dont make pottery. Its gey


#31 rbakken2504

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 10:34 AM

I read an article on one of those full tilt poker "lessons" saying how in PLO8 hands like K10Q8 double suited are very powerful becuase when you hit with them, you arent going to split the pot. First off, you did NOT read a full tilt article saying this, because all pros aren't dumb enough to say KQ108 ds is very powerful in PLO8, its very rare that a pro will play an O8 hand without a low possibility in it. So, please show me this article.Second, when you hit with this hand you're not going to always scoop the pot or even the hi, its very likely that someone can be playing the same high. I don't consider myself a great PLO8 player, but i've seen donkeys that know more about this game than you.

#32 crimethink_

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 10:53 AM

View Postrbakken2504, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 2:34 PM, said:

I read an article on one of those full tilt poker "lessons" saying how in PLO8 hands like K10Q8 double suited are very powerful becuase when you hit with them, you arent going to split the pot. First off, you did NOT read a full tilt article saying this, because all pros aren't dumb enough to say KQ108 ds is very powerful in PLO8, its very rare that a pro will play an O8 hand without a low possibility in it. So, please show me this article.Second, when you hit with this hand you're not going to always scoop the pot or even the hi, its very likely that someone can be playing the same high. I don't consider myself a great PLO8 player, but i've seen donkeys that know more about this game than you.
This is probably what he's talking about:"Many players undervalue hands that contain four high cards. For example, a hand like K-Q-J-T is a solid Omaha-8 hand. Any flop that has two cards above a 9 will give K-Q-J-T a straight draw, two-pair, or a set. On such a flop, there probably won't be a qualifying low, so there's a great chance to scoop. (In Omaha-8, three of the board cards must be 8 or below for anyone to make a low that can take half the pot.) If the flop has three low cards, you can abandon K-Q-J-T, knowing that it's got essentially no chance to win."From Lesson 43But "solid" is not "very powerful," and KQT8 is not KQJT.

#33 rbakken2504

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 11:14 AM

View Postcrimethink_, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 9:53 PM, said:

This is probably what he's talking about:"Many players undervalue hands that contain four high cards. For example, a hand like K-Q-J-T is a solid Omaha-8 hand. Any flop that has two cards above a 9 will give K-Q-J-T a straight draw, two-pair, or a set. On such a flop, there probably won't be a qualifying low, so there's a great chance to scoop. (In Omaha-8, three of the board cards must be 8 or below for anyone to make a low that can take half the pot.) If the flop has three low cards, you can abandon K-Q-J-T, knowing that it's got essentially no chance to win."From Lesson 43But "solid" is not "very powerful," and KQT8 is not KQJT.
Ah, touche, thanks for clearing that up.

#34 Tantalar

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 11:14 AM

Poker is a game about making the correct mathematical plays over a long period of time. if I put someone on a hand, and I know full well what they have, then i know that they arent going to be sharing my outs. All over this thread, you all make it sound like theres more than one person to the flop and there arent. If this guy calls me, I know exactly what he has. With anything less, he would have folded (Like I said) The following applies to all forms of poker. I dont know if im giving you guys too much credit, but the basic concept behind the play is that all I have to do is steal the pot certainly no more than 1/10 of the time for it to be a break even play. Regardless of the exact % of the time, it is the same concept as semi bluffing. You try to take down the pot right there. Just like re raising pre flop with AK. you dont WAAANNNTTT to see the flop and gamble with someone who has QQ. But if it comes to it, your 44% to win. You rely on stealing the pot BEFORE the flop to make up for that 6% difference. Thats basically all im trying to explain. Is my play a conservative play? hell no. Is it borderline wreckless? Yeah. I play PLOHL with a borderline wreckless strategy. But there is no way you can bash this play because of what i just explained, and the below statement.my EE is 44% with Ks Qs 10d 8d vs Ah Kh 2h 6h.In holdem...Ad Kh is only 43% against Qd Qs. Are you saying you should start folding AK pre flop because its not close enough to 50/50? I dont think so, I think you raise because they could have AQ or a pocket pair. What next, are we going to start picking on people for trying to bluff someone pre flop with garbage because they trust their read on the person?Heres a link to the article I was talking abouthttp://www.fulltiltp...s.php?lesson=43"Many players undervalue hands that contain four high cards. For example, a hand like K-Q-J-T is a solid Omaha-8 hand. Any flop that has two cards above a 9 will give K-Q-J-T a straight draw, two-pair, or a set. On such a flop, there probably won't be a qualifying low, so there's a great chance to scoop. (In Omaha-8, three of the board cards must be 8 or below for anyone to make a low that can take half the pot.) If the flop has three low cards, you can abandon K-Q-J-T, knowing that it's got essentially no chance to win." Just goes to show how many of you truely undervalue a hand like KQ108 DS. Being afraid to gamble when your a slight favorite/slight dog is the mark of a bad player. I bet 90% of you are the type of player who check calls/ is afraid to go all in on the flop with an open ended straight flush draw too. Saying it is an aggressive, wreckless play is one thing, but calling it a BAD play is harsh and unacceptable, not to mention foolish. Again, go check the EE and ask yourself "Why do I re raise someone who has QQ when I have AK, and why do i go all in pre flop with it in holdem" its the same basic mathematical concept.
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#35 Habs Fan

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 11:22 AM

View PostTantalar, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 11:14 AM, said:

if I put someone on a hand, and I know full well what they have
I'm pretty sure you don't full well know anything big guy.Also, you suck at the pottery. Which is appropriate enough I guess, cause it's really gey.
...

#36 speedz99

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 11:24 AM

View PostTantalar, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 12:14 PM, said:

I don't mind putting all my money in preflop in a cash game when I'm an obvious dog.
Good luck to you.
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#37 Tantalar

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 11:30 AM

View Postturd ferguson, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 9:08 AM, said:

I don't even know where to begin here. Let me fix a few things first. The point of a hi/low game is to give yourself a chance to scoop the entire pot. When you put yourself in a position where you can win only one side your opponnent is essentially frerolling on your for half the pot. Where exactly did you get that 93% number because it smells like shit.
You are an idiot. A hand like KQ108 DS does not require low cards. If I instead had a hand like 4567 DS your arguement would makse sense. However, the hands needed for my HIGH do NOT correspond with the cards my opponent needs for the LOW. Therefore, Im either going to SCOOP, or im going to LOSE. RARELY will I get Half, VERY RARELY. Just stop and think for a second of how many board combinations allow me to scoop, how many allow him to scoop, and how many time i get half. Then maybe youll realize that the vast majority of the time, Im either going to Scoop, or lose which almost completely eliminates the low factor. the 7% advantage for the high is close to the slight edge of him having the low when i have the high (which is pretty rare)Come on man... its not that complicated
The best poker players are the ones who suffer the most bad beats

#38 turd ferguson

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 11:35 AM

View PostTantalar, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 12:30 PM, said:

You are an idiot. A hand like KQ108 DS does not require low cards. If I instead had a hand like 4567 DS your arguement would makse sense. However, the hands needed for my HIGH do NOT correspond with the cards my opponent needs for the LOW. Therefore, Im either going to SCOOP, or im going to LOSE. RARELY will I get Half, VERY RARELY. Just stop and think for a second of how many board combinations allow me to scoop, how many allow him to scoop, and how many time i get half. Then maybe youll realize that the vast majority of the time, Im either going to Scoop, or lose which almost completely eliminates the low factor. the 7% advantage for the high is close to the slight edge of him having the low when i have the high (which is pretty rare)Come on man... its not that complicated
And exactly how often do you think you're going to scoop this pot, math wiz?

#39 Tantalar

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 11:35 AM

"I'm pretty sure you don't full well know anything big guy.Also, you suck at the pottery. Which is appropriate enough I guess, cause it's really gey."I came to talk strategy, you came to insult people. You are most likely some fat hairy piece of s hit who weighs 350 pounds, has no life, is a net losing poker player, got abandoned by your wife for your poker losses, and now comes to fullcontactpoker.com to troll the forums. Outside of the forum you are most certainly a nobody. Unproductive to society. A worthless piece of garbage. Your that fa g at the casino who giggles as he check calls pot sized bets with gutshots and flush draws on paired boards.
The best poker players are the ones who suffer the most bad beats

#40 kers2

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 11:37 AM

View PostTantalar, on Thursday, June 1st, 2006, 3:35 PM, said:

I make pottery for a professional poker player
FYP
QUOTE(DinkDonk @ Thursday, September 4th, 2008, 12:40 PM) View Post
I guess this is all unnecessary rambling because Hollywood personifies something I hate about most people. He can take valuable knowledge, stare it right in the fucking face and never let a single sentence absorb into his brain.




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