18 replies to this topic

[MarionSauce]

Okay, I need a little help here, I'm pretty much a beginner player and I seem to always lose with two pair off the flop. For examples' sake,.25/.50 blinds, everyone has about $50 (on royal vegas) I have 6-5 BB, limp in, flop is 6-5-J. I try to "protect my hand" and I bet $6.50, and buddy calls, everyone else folds. Turn is a 'blank', and I bet again for 6, buddy calls. River is an Ace of course, and I bet for 4, buddy raises to make it 8, and I call. Obviously he has A-J. So since I'm a beginner, enlighten me, because this happens to me ALL the time! Should I raise more off the flop or what??

[KDawgCometh]

you should've made a pot sized bet on the turn. In this case though this guy is going nowhere with top pair top kicker, just bad luck

[shamhawks]

you need to be very aggressive with these, and if someone calls, you need to be very carefull at the same time especially with a big 2 pair as if another face card comes up on the turn depending on how many stay in, someone probably has caught the st8Example:You have J K flopped:j k 2 you have top 2 pair, and this needs to be bet very aggressive, as the chance of someone having AQ 10A Q10 9Q in a multi pot are pretty good and you have to make them pay for their draws. This is a 2 edged sword cuz by betting big, you are giving them more odds to call with their st8 draws, but depending on what type of table your at, most people will not realize odds to call anyway.

[Abbaddabba]

The only thing that I think would be advisable would be betting heavier on the turn. You would have been ****ed and probably lost more knowing the outcome, but that's how it goes sometimes.If you're pretty sure that he didnt improve on the turn, then him having anything short of a set (or something retarded like j/6) would keep you ahead at that point and warrant strong bets. Your hand certainly wasn't strong enough to slow play.You could have folded to the raise on the river given that it looked awfully suspicious (min raise to someone who cleary hit something WANTS callers) but at low limits, he could easily just been fishing for an ace/rags and hit, in which case you'd have him beat. Oh yeah, and i recognize you. You were at one of those UW tournaments about a month ago.

[MarionSauce]

Abbaddabba said:

The only thing that I think would be advisable would be betting heavier on the turn.  You would have been censored and probably lost more knowing the outcome, but that's how it goes sometimes.If you're pretty sure that he didnt improve on the turn, then him having anything short of a set (or something retarded like j/6) would keep you ahead at that point and warrant strong bets.  Your hand certainly wasn't strong enough to slow play.You could have folded to the raise on the river given that it looked awfully suspicious (min raise to someone who cleary hit something WANTS callers) but at low limits, he could easily just been fishing for an ace/rags and hit, in which case you'd have him beat.  Oh yeah, and i recognize you.  You were at one of those UW tournaments about a month ago.

Are you sure? I'm on co op right now so I haven't been to school school since Dec, I went up this weekend though, we went to some beer pong tournament then Phil's. Yes 1.75 drinks!

[wrto4556]

Just bet the pot the whole way, he can't draw out on you every time.If everyone limps and there is $3 in the pot, bet $3...same for the turn. When he calls with one pair, you're making money. Call the mini raise on the end, too. If you fold in a pot that big its a huge mistake. One time he has AK and hits a lonely A on the river and raises you. Call the bet for sanity's sake.

[NormanHaupt]

First: If you always fear a hand will lose, you'll never be profitable. You understand 2 pair is profitable. People will suck out on you, it'll happen over and ver again. Ever lose AK 10 times in a row and decide its absolute junk? We all know better, and you gotta have faith. when you do hit, savor it. Someone said Poker is a game of selective memory. Remember the times you win and what you did, forget the cards that didn't pay off.On a side note: I've dated two girls from Toronto, one specifically from Waterloo. .. and neither was nearly as cute as you. You're not originally from there, are you?

[shamhawks]

well, I should have listened to my own advice.. made a horrible play with top 2 pair.***** Hand History for Game 1717338201 *****$25 NL Hold'em - Thursday, March 10, 23:18:14 EDT 2005Table Table 37279 (Real Money)Seat 2 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10 Seat 1: danbyr ( $24.05 )Seat 2: wharton1 ( $56.29 )Seat 3: ngdtme ( $0 )Seat 4: killjoy33 ( $28.95 )Seat 5: pvanhof ( $31.2 )Seat 6: YeaItsMe ( $24.35 )Seat 8: Ragster27 ( $23.85 )Seat 9: TedMej22 ( $7.7 )Seat 10: CarbonSkinz ( $10.47 )Seat 7: MyHuskies ( $24.25 )killjoy33 posts small blind [$0.1].pvanhof posts big blind [$0.25].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to MyHuskies [ Th Qd ]YeaItsMe folds.MyHuskies calls [$0.25].Ragster27 calls [$0.25].TedMej22 folds.CarbonSkinz calls [$0.25].danbyr calls [$0.25].wharton1 folds.killjoy33 calls [$0.15].pvanhof checks.** Dealing Flop ** [ Qh, Ts, 9c ]killjoy33 checks.pvanhof bets [$1].MyHuskies calls [$1].Ragster27 calls [$1].CarbonSkinz folds.danbyr raises [$4].killjoy33 folds.Tell a friend about PartyPoker.com and earn $50 & 1000 Party Points. Your friend receives $25!pvanhof calls [$3].MyHuskies calls [$3].Ragster27 folds.** Dealing Turn ** [ 5c ]pvanhof checks.MyHuskies checks.danbyr is all-In [$19.8]pvanhof folds.MyHuskies: dang hope your on drawMyHuskies calls [$19.8].** Dealing River ** [ Jc ]MyHuskies shows [ Th, Qd ] two pairs, queens and tens.danbyr shows [ Jh, Kh ] a straight, nine to king.danbyr wins $51.4 from the main pot with a straight, nine to king.Game #1717345962 starts.Well the biggest mistake i made here, was calling pre-flop in early position. I hardly ever play this loose early. anyway flop top 2 pair, but st8 very possibe. i'm only a few hands in on this table and don't know how this guy plays. warning signs should have been ringing, but i put him on AJ giving him a OESD...anyway, think i should have raised the flop, he comes over the top, maybe i can get away from the hand...probably not though :? ...This seems to happen way too much, like i said in the original post...when you have top 2 pair with big cards 10's or better, and a third big card is there...st8's happen a huge % of the time

[Vade]

Honestly, I'm all in on the turn there, if it's an obvious blank.Either way, all your chips are prolly going in, but this is the only way you could have won the pot (again, he/she's almost always gonna call, but you won't always drown on the river ya know )

[Vade]

shamhawks said:

Well the biggest mistake i made here, was calling pre-flop in early position. I hardly ever play this loose early. anyway flop top 2 pair, but st8 very possibe. i'm only a few hands in on this table and don't know how this guy plays. warning signs should have been ringing, but i put him on AJ giving him a OESD...anyway, think i should have raised the flop, he comes over the top, maybe i can get away from the hand...probably not though :? ...This seems to happen way too much, like i said in the original post...when you have top 2 pair with big cards 10's or better, and a third big card is there...st8's happen a huge % of the time

Pretty good analysis. Personally, I think you've gotta fold the turn (oh, and folding preflop ). Oh, and I probably would have called the turn, and gone against my own advice.Have to fold the river though.

[Abbaddabba]

Quote

Are you sure? I'm on co op right now so I haven't been to school school since Dec, I went up this weekend though, we went to some beer pong tournament then Phil's. Yes 1.75 drinks!

Were you playing at rev last night (thursday)? If not, i just played with your look-alike.

[NormanHaupt]

I hit two pair and I immediately go allin. I don't know why.Today was a great example. I was at a table doing a TON of blind steals. I mean, loads. normally I don't, but here I had such a great image.Well someone caught me. The funny part was he caught me absolutely naked. I had 72o. Reraises me only slightly to drag me to a flop. I call, see a flop. 729.Two pair.. god damn! I check, playing timid. I just got reraised after all. He bets pretty hard into me and I go over the top. I'm thinking "Perfect! He thinks it was a blind steal and now I'm goofing off trying to steal more! CALL ME!"I actually typed that, too, "CALL ME!"He reraised me all in. I, gleefully call.Q-blank fires turn ad river. I happy show my cards. ..... how the **** did he get 9-7 and reraise me preflop?!:(lol I did't feel too bad because, no lie, I took ALL that money away the next hand. Pocket J's, bet on it like I was tilting. Flopped blank blank blank. He smooth called me. turned a J, I bet weaker now- he goes over the top, I go all in, he thinks I'm lying. I think I'll buy another beer with his chips.something's gotta be said for Akishore's advice about always sitting with max at NL table.

[MarionSauce]

Abbaddabba said:

Quote

Are you sure? I'm on co op right now so I haven't been to school school since Dec, I went up this weekend though, we went to some beer pong tournament then Phil's. Yes 1.75 drinks!

Were you playing at rev last night (thursday)? If not, i just played with your look-alike.

Rev? You mean the rez or the club? I am not even in Waterloo right now, so definitely my look alike. I hope she's good then!!

[MarionSauce]

NormanHaupt said:

First: If you always fear a hand will lose, you'll never be profitable. You understand 2 pair is profitable. People will suck out on you, it'll happen over and ver again. Ever lose AK 10 times in a row and decide its absolute junk? We all know better, and you gotta have faith. when you do hit, savor it. Someone said Poker is a game of selective memory. Remember the times you win and what you did, forget the cards that didn't pay off.On a side note: I've dated two girls from Toronto, one specifically from Waterloo. .. and neither was nearly as cute as you. You're not originally from there, are you?

I'm originally from Hong kong.. haha, but I'm from Mississauga. On a side note, I "despise" AK, because you only hit the flop about 1/3rd of the time, and it seems like I'm always in that 66% of NOT hitting anything! But sometimes it's nice having junk and hitting theflop and having some douche bag chasing with AK all the way and calling all your bets, thinking his Ace high is bomb.

[NormanHaupt]

Yes I don't understand AK, at all. Not one bit. I need someone to explain it to me again and why its a top 5 hand.

[Abbaddabba]

Preflop, they're just two cards. When you've got A/K though, you can usually be certain that no one is heavily favored to you - something that you cannot be certain of with many starting hands. When you raise extremely heavy with A/K, you usually get four types of callers. Under pocket pair, which you are slightly disfavored to. Pocket Aces/Kings, which heavily disfavored to. Two undercards, which you are slightly favored to. An ace or king with an under card, which you are heavily favored to. The point is, there are more combinations of hands that could potentially be calling you that you're favored to (and on average, by a larger degree) than those that are favored to you.

[Abbaddabba]

"Rev? You mean the rez or the club? I am not even in Waterloo right now, so definitely my look alike. I hope she's good then!!"The residence. She killed with her Q/4 offsuit, flopping the quads to a heavy preflop raise.

[MarionSauce]

Abbaddabba said:

"Rev? You mean the rez or the club? I am not even in Waterloo right now, so definitely my look alike. I hope she's good then!!"The residence. She killed with her Q/4 offsuit, flopping the quads to a heavy preflop raise.

What, she called a heavy pre flop raise with Q/4??!

[Abbaddabba]

Yeah, with 2 other callers before she acted. A friend of mine had 4's full of aces, and got taken down by quad 4's. A depressing loss on a 40 dollar pot.