14 replies to this topic

[screech]

Played against a 70/35/3 player today.

Typical hand went as follows:

He limps, I get 55 and raise to 30, lag reraises to 60, I call.

Flop T82, he pots, I fold.

Or:

I get AJs and raise to 22, he reraises to 50, I call.

Flop something ragged. He pots, I fold.

Or I raise small pp, he floats. Flop ragged, I bet, he pots.

****.

So my basic strategy was to wiat for a hand and BUST HIM. Of course, that never happened. And during all that waiting, I probably lost close to a buy in because I played like such a *****.

Also, this guy had a tendency to 3-bet me very liberally pf, but he would not raise limpers all that often or to all that much.

So my new refined strategy agianst this guy is to play AJs+, AQo+, and 99+ harder pf. If he 3-bets, I 4.

Also, I think I should have started limping with my smaller pp's, and suited connectors, and cut out hands like A7s entirely. I'm still not sure what to do with hands like KQ, I guess I hsould still raise them.

As you can see, my strategy is pretty lousy. I konw I should make money off this guy, but I need well thought out plan. So what do you guys do here?

[Scott3705]

So my basic strategy was to wiat for a hand and BUST HIM. Of course, that never happened. And during all that waiting, I probably lost close to a buy in because I played like such a *****.

Also, this guy had a tendency to 3-bet me very liberally pf, but he would not raise limpers all that often or to all that much.

So my new refined strategy agianst this guy is to play AJs+, AQo+, and 99+ harder pf. If he 3-bets, I 4.

Also, I think I should have started limping with my smaller pp's, and suited connectors, and cut out hands like A7s entirely. I'm still not sure what to do with hands like KQ, I guess I hsould still raise them.

As you can see, my strategy is pretty lousy. I konw I should make money off this guy, but I need well thought out plan. So what do you guys do here?

In a full ring, I think you have plenty of time to play a more trapping type of game.
In a SHed game, it's harder to play this way cause you'll just get eaten up and even a bad LAG will realize when he's being trapped . This is why I like your idea about PF aggression. Consider what LAG's try to accomplish PF in a Shed game. We try to isolate one opponent w/ the lead going to the flop. Then we fire at pots and take it down usually. This is why he 3bets often, but rarely tries to thin the field of limpers. The other thing we try to do is keep people passive. We don't want anyone playing back at us w/ marginal hands. When they do, we'll push any reasonable draw (and air if he's a real maniac.)
So I like the idea of getting chips in Preflop when you will be on average a 2:1 favorite as opposed to getting into too many flops w/ him and trying to out LAG him.

Example

.5/1 i raise to 3 SB reraises to 10. I reraise to 25, SB pushes for $125 more on top. i fold, he shows AJ. That's the best way to play me.

[fckthis]

What levels are you playing? 1-2? Because I frankly think your raises are ridiculous.

[Scott3705]

What levels are you playing? 1-2? Because I frankly think your raises are ridiculous.

Last post he made was 2/4

[screech]

What levels are you playing? 1-2? Because I frankly think your raises are ridiculous.

I play 3/6.

I don't really bother adjusting my open raises ever. 22 all the time. I bump it to 25 if there's one limper, and 30 something if I'm trying to squeeze from the blinds. I 8-table, and varying my open raise size is pretty pointless in terms of EV. It just wastes time. At 2/4, my open raise standard was 15.

[krup24]

The answer is to limp a lot in this situation. Limp w/ 55, AJs, etc. call raises w/ pot odds w/ these hands. Play your big hands strongly. Play ABC TAG poker and you'll stack him with some patience.

[NoSup4U]

The answer is to limp a lot in this situation. Limp w/ 55, AJs, etc. call raises w/ pot odds w/ these hands. Play your big hands strongly. Play ABC TAG poker and you'll stack him with some patience.

I disagree. If you're getting run over by a LAG pf/flop waiting around for big hands won't stack him. He'll just fold his air. But unless you get a good string of big pairs or big cards that hit the flop, he will have stacked you over time and can afford to lose his pot bet on the flop.

Either he is outplaying you and you should avoid him, or you will have to gamble a bit more and pick some good pf hands to go with. Thats the decisions LAGs put people too. You never know what they have, and if you let them, they will run you over. So you have to take a stand with a less than optimal holding or else you'll find out what you did. That they realize you will fold on flops when you don't hit, and they will steal every penny from you.

As usual, I advocate betting much smaller pf and controlling the pot more, as long as you are comfortable with your post flop play.

Mark

[Scott3705]

I play 3/6.

I don't really bother adjusting my open raises ever. 22 all the time. I bump it to 25 if there's one limper, and 30 something if I'm trying to squeeze from the blinds. I 8-table, and varying my open raise size is pretty pointless in terms of EV. It just wastes time. At 2/4, my open raise standard was 15.

NM. Don't try to outply a LAG 8 tabling.

[DrawingDeadInDM]

Screech,

I play a very similar style to the one you mentioned. Very LAGgy, very aggro. The thing that really makes me uncomfortable or I have a hard time dealing with, is when people lead into me.

For instance. The hand you mentioned, you raise to 30 with 55, I pick up JTs and pop it again, you call.

Flop comes T82.

You pot it at me...well, I'm LAG and all, but, I Really don't know that I want to be playing a big pot with TP no kicker, when you could easily have JJ or better. If not a set--I probably have to fold.

Now, the best way, honestly, to combat this style is to fold to a lot of re-raises early on--say first 5-10 hands that he comes back over the top. Then, start to mix in the third raise against him. You make it 30, he makes it 60, you make it 150. This will allow you eventually to see more flops, and hopefully, keep him from consistently raising you preflop.

And don't be afraid to occasionally check/raise him with A high and 55..he's just as likely to have missed those flops as you are. Though, in all reality, you're much better off playing against a LAG in position.

[screech]

Screech,

I play a very similar style to the one you mentioned. Very LAGgy, very aggro. The thing that really makes me uncomfortable or I have a hard time dealing with, is when people lead into me.

For instance. The hand you mentioned, you raise to 30 with 55, I pick up JTs and pop it again, you call.

Flop comes T82.

You pot it at me...well, I'm LAG and all, but, I Really don't know that I want to be playing a big pot with TP no kicker, when you could easily have JJ or better. If not a set--I probably have to fold.

Now, the best way, honestly, to combat this style is to fold to a lot of re-raises early on--say first 5-10 hands that he comes back over the top. Then, start to mix in the third raise against him. You make it 30, he makes it 60, you make it 150. This will allow you eventually to see more flops, and hopefully, keep him from consistently raising you preflop.

And don't be afraid to occasionally check/raise him with A high and 55..he's just as likely to have missed those flops as you are. Though, in all reality, you're much better off playing against a LAG in position.

The difference is, you're a smart LAG that doesn't waste money. This guy was a 75/30/3 idiot who would usually raise any donkbet.

[DrawingDeadInDM]

The difference is, you're a smart LAG that doesn't waste money. This guy was a 75/30/3 idiot who would usually raise any donkbet.

Surprisingly, Poker Tracker numbers mean nothing to me, heh. But, yeah, I see your point. At the same time, if we're OOP, I don't mind check/raising quite a bit--since it seems from what you said, that we could almost guarantee he would bet. And a lot of times our A high and 55 is still good.

[Scott3705]

Surprisingly, Poker Tracker numbers mean nothing to me, heh. But, yeah, I see your point. At the same time, if we're OOP, I don't mind check/raising quite a bit--since it seems from what you said, that we could almost guarantee he would bet. And a lot of times our A high and 55 is still good.

75 30 is just retarded player. I'm new to PT, but it means that he's basically playing 48o for a call.

[DrawingDeadInDM]

75 30 is just retarded player. I'm new to PT, but it means that he's basically playing 48o for a call.

Which would tell me even moreso, that AJs and 55 are good in these situations.

[Jordan]

Screech, I usually like to be the table boss, and yesterday I just couldn't.

It was sick.

Playing 3 handed I had two guys at my table that called any raise or re-raise preflop (they raise to 21, I re-raise to $65 and they'd call with any two, in or out of position) and would pot, literally, every flop. It seriously got so bad at one point I started questioning if they were working together. loool, and I almost never ever would assume that in a game. I was actually up a buy in on the table and lost it all back playing small pots and a few big pots that I was willing to gamble with them with hands like AQ, AK, JJ that didn't seem to go my way when I needed.

I knew I was getting outflopped sometimes, but it also felt like getting outplayed at times as well. Granted, I stayed "calm" emotionally, it was starting to piss me off, as I knew one guy was just a straight donk (went thru atleast 4 buy ins that day) while the other one was probably the best LAG i've played in my small amount of hands so far at 600NL. I played with him later that night, even some HU, and I realized he was probably a 'smart' lag, and/or was running good that night as well.

You'll have these nights where nothing seems to be going your way, and other people are getting donated to...sometimes it just happens.

Point is I guess...if you are playing someone who has numbers like that...you'll really have to either pick up a hand and hopefully "trap" if he is a maniac, or play back at him with marginal hands and let him know you won't get bossed around.

I went thru 2 buy ins last night myself doing this, and it's not fun. I got my foot caught in a few tough spots, threw a three barrel bluff (ewps), called a $225 all in with AJs (lost that oen), and had QQ cracked 3 handed for about $300. Tally that up with my small rebuys to keep my stack at $600 and when I tallyed it up at the night I realized I booked a -2 buy in night.

I hate nights like that, but when it happens it helps to just re-evaluate some hands and situations you were in and how to deal with them best next time.

I believe in fighting fire with fire short handed..but it can be volitale and not fun when you can't hit a flop for your life in the pots you need to, or are just getting potted consistently and feel like your hands are tied.

It's a good learning experience though to go thru, so hopefully you can deal with it better later.

- Jordan

[screech]

Which would tell me even moreso, that AJs and 55 are good in these situations.

I agree. I think I just have to bite the bullet and pick a spot to stand up no matter how uncomfortable a spot it is.