51 replies to this topic

[MisterB]

If you dont know I would like to share that I am a combat veteran who served in OIF...

And while I was in Iraq aka mesopotamia between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers I really began to think about religion and god in general...

And let me tell you there is no justice in who dies and who doesnt... God will not bring your soldier back...god will not bring your enemys friends back... how many people did the terrorists kill on 9/11 3000? my unit killed 7-12k in Iraq the first night (multiple launch rocket systems) and let me tell you those people prayed just like everyone else... "If god be for us, then who can be against us?"

I just want a discussion into how it is possible to believe in something that has no explanation at all...that was founded on a story that was handed down for generations before it was written? God doesnt help anyone win a game or get drafted higher. or win an emmy but thats all you hear...thank you jesus (god)

so where is god when you live and your friend gets shot and he prays everyday and I have my doubts... this is my question to you... are you any more or less a person if you dont believe in "god"

where is the justice... dont take this lightly...but it has merit that only the good die young... I may be rambling here...but I can tell you if there is no justice from "someone you love" who shows no love back? were the people in NO any less religious than those in whichita kansas?

Just from a war veteran I can tell you I have seen far too many things to make me have faith anymore

[crowTrobot]

THe Lord works in mysterious ways my friend. You are no less of a person for feeling this way. But I challenge you to watch in your everyday life for God. And attempt to pursue him. And I guarantee you will see results. I have a feeling that you are going to see the Lord move in a big way. If only you will watch.

the OP is being objective. you aren't.

[speedz99]

THe Lord works in mysterious ways my friend. You are no less of a person for feeling this way. But I challenge you to watch in your everyday life for God. And attempt to pursue him. And I guarantee you will see results. I have a feeling that you are going to see the Lord move in a big way. If only you will watch.

This means absolutely nothing...except for the fact that if you want to see God, you will. That's why this next quote applies to you:

the OP is being objective. you aren't.

But really, those who don't believe on blind faith will never believe at all. There are no miracles in life...nothing that cannot be explained through science and rational thought.

I don't think anyone here is wrong. If you want to see God, good for you. If you don't believe in God, that's fine too. Logic and religion have no place trying to convince one another to switch sides.

[crowTrobot]

Logic and religion have no place trying to convince one another to switch sides.

well it's a waste of time to try to switch the opinion of anyone who posts in this forum, but looking at the broader picture the debate is of critical importance for humanity.

[DonkSlayer]

Regardless of what you personally believe...religion is a source of hope for billions across the globe. Think we'll be better off if that's gone?

[speedz99]

well it's a waste of time to try to switch the opinion of anyone who posts in this forum, but looking at the broader picture the debate is of critical importance for humanity.

Why?

[crowTrobot]

Regardless of what you personally believe...religion is a source of hope for billions across the globe. Think we'll be better off if that's gone?

if you're talking about fundamentalism, absolutely. all it's doing now is sustaining social boundaries and rampant anti-intellectualism. it is time we outgrew our need for it.

[Loismustdie]

well it's a waste of time to try to switch the opinion of anyone who posts in this forum, but looking at the broader picture the debate is of critical importance for humanity.

No, it's not. Just live and let live and when you die what will be will be. I think this statement shows exactly how desperate atheists, or at least some, how much they truly need to disprove God to be at peace with... what? I don't know what the problem is, but I meet atheists everyday and say , "Fine, live your life", and go on my merry way, and this is what there sentiments are? Critical importance for humanity? Realize this- science, for all it's misconceptions does get this right- we are not going to be forever, the earth was not built to last, there will be an end to this. Humanity is doomed anyway, whether you believe in a supreme creator or not.

[crowTrobot]

No, it's not. Just live and let live and when you die what will be will be. I think this statement shows exactly how desperate atheists, or at least some, how much they truly need to disprove God to be at peace with... what?

i don't care about disproving god - i'm agnostic. i care that specific fundamentalist belief of any kind is ultimately detrimental to humanity and needs to go. the sooner the better.

Realize this- science, for all it's misconceptions does get this right- we are not going to be forever, the earth was not built to last, there will be an end to this. Humanity is doomed anyway, whether you believe in a supreme creator or not.

the only reason the earth is necessarily finite is because the sun will go red giant 4 billion years from now. otherwise global catastrophies are potentially avoidable if technology progresses enough, and we can certainly learn to live completely off of renewable resources IF we work together. currently we aren't, and religious fundamentalism and religious anti-intellectualism are big parts of why we aren't (although not the only reasons).

[screech]

THe Lord works in mysterious ways my friend. You are no less of a person for feeling this way. But I challenge you to watch in your everyday life for God. And attempt to pursue him. And I guarantee you will see results. I have a feeling that you are going to see the Lord move in a big way. If only you will watch.

That tired cliche is a cop-out. How does he work in mysterious ways? Why is he working in mysterious ways? Is there any point to these mysterious ways?

My guess is that you can't come up with a legit reason as to why he works in mysterious ways. And that's OPs point. That there is no point, and the god as described in the bible is just a myth.

Regardless of what you personally believe...religion is a source of hope for billions across the globe. Think we'll be better off if that's gone?

Of course. It's also the reason why there is so much unwarranted hatred in the world. Religion does way more harm than good.

You think people have to be told a fairy tale to have hope? I have more confidence in the human race than that.

[mtdesmoines]

currently we aren't, and religious fundamentalism and religious anti-intellectualism are big parts of why we aren't (although not the only reasons).

That's a lot to lay at the feet of religion; especially when it's provided a lot of positives to the planet as well.

[screech]

That's a lot to lay at the feet of religion; especially when it's provided a lot of positives to the planet as well.

Yeah. Like when god created it.

[crowTrobot]

That's a lot to lay at the feet of religion; especially when it's provided a lot of positives to the planet as well.

like what specifically? yeah a lot of humanitarian relief has been done in the name of religion, but that's just a drop in the bucket compared to the immense amount of historical carnage and social/intellectual stagnation it has caused and continues to perpetuate.

[MisterB]

Well there was a really good comment that the world would not be better off without religion... 95% of the world believes in one form of higher being than another...


My contention is this... Is there not more evidence of a lack of God...than there is proof that he exists?

The phrase the Lord works in mysterious ways... Well that may be true, that is why its called 'faith'...but my premise for the arguement is that point exactly...in what way does he act? Praying everyday didnt help my Aunt from having her son run over by a car... If there is a God, then why do so many bad things happen to good people?

If you believe so strongly, and in your heart you know its true...and you want something to happen... you will create that situation in your head... if something bad "ALMOST" happens you can easily say God saved me... because you have it so wrapped up in your mind that he/it does exist...

What makes Christians more right than a Buddhist? Or a Jew? Or a Muslim?

What makes our God more powerful than there God? Jews were religious and look what happend to them? Muslims were religious and look what happend to them during the Crusades...past and the present Crusade?

Im not talking evolution or mutation... I just want to know if there is a God or not? If GOD created the world then how come primates knew nothing of him? The story of a Savior was in existance 2000 years before christ... I dont know... I guess all i need is CNN to tell me theres a GOD and I will listen (that was to lighten the mood)

Thoughts?

like what specifically? yeah a lot of humanitarian relief has been done in the name of religion, but that's just a drop in the bucket compared to the immense amount of historical carnage and social/intellectual stagnation it has caused and continues to perpetuate.

Well said sir... well said... at what cost do we provide that service?

I am not going to say the world would be better without religion... I think it provides some with morals...and pushes others to do good deeds... but what exactly are we believing in...a story...well so are scientologists..jews...muslims...buddhists..hindus...etc...well what 'story' is right?

[copernicus]

Well there was a really good comment that the world would not be better off without religion... 95% of the world believes in one form of higher being than another...
My contention is this... Is there not more evidence of a lack of God...than there is proof that he exists?

The phrase the Lord works in mysterious ways... Well that may be true, that is why its called 'faith'...but my premise for the arguement is that point exactly...in what way does he act? Praying everyday didnt help my Aunt from having her son run over by a car... If there is a God, then why do so many bad things happen to good people?

If you believe so strongly, and in your heart you know its true...and you want something to happen... you will create that situation in your head... if something bad "ALMOST" happens you can easily say God saved me... because you have it so wrapped up in your mind that he/it does exist...

What makes Christians more right than a Buddhist? Or a Jew? Or a Muslim?

What makes our God more powerful than there God? Jews were religious and look what happend to them? Muslims were religious and look what happend to them during the Crusades...past and the present Crusade?

Im not talking evolution or mutation... I just want to know if there is a God or not? If GOD created the world then how come primates knew nothing of him? The story of a Savior was in existance 2000 years before christ... I dont know... I guess all i need is CNN to tell me theres a GOD and I will listen (that was to lighten the mood)

Thoughts?
Well said sir... well said... at what cost do we provide that service?

I am not going to say the world would be better without religion... I think it provides some with morals...and pushes others to do good deeds... but what exactly are we believing in...a story...well so are scientologists..jews...muslims...buddhists..hindus...etc...well what 'story' is right?

None of them.

I had to laugh the other day..I was driving to a meeting with a colleague and he had Sean Hannity on and it was the first time I had heard him. His reputation is as a God-fearing humanitarian type. Some guy calls up saying he believes in Louis Farrakhan and all of his bizarre beliefs (mothership, aliens and so on). Hannity basically ridicules him ....Ha Ha Ha, mothership, teleportation...THEY DONT EXIST! I just felt like screaming back Ha Ha Ha resurrection, transubstantiation...THEY DONT EXIST!

[MisterB]

None of them.

I had to laugh the other day..I was driving to a meeting with a colleague and he had Sean Hannity on and it was the first time I had heard him. His reputation is as a God-fearing humanitarian type. Some guy calls up saying he believes in Louis Farrakhan and all of his bizarre beliefs (mothership, aliens and so on). Hannity basically ridicules him ....Ha Ha Ha, mothership, teleportation...THEY DONT EXIST! I just felt like screaming back Ha Ha Ha resurrection, transubstantiation...THEY DONT EXIST!

well said... and i know... im glad you agree... but i must admit its tough being a black sheep

[gobears]

Mister B, you ask very good questions...

From what I see around me, I've never had a problem with there being a "God" but I have had a lot of problems with whether God really desires a personal relationship with me which is a basis of many Christian teachings. Also, I have wondered about the power of prayer.

My own opinion is that God doesn't intervene very often - if God continually intervened, then we would have no free will and most of the World's problems are caused by people exercising their free will. Of course there are also natural disasters such as tsunamis and earthquakes which cause heavy loss of life and many victims really had no choice of where they lived..I have no answer for that.

God is probably not going to stop the drunk driver from hitting an innocent pedestrian or on a larger scale, those folks in the path of a tsunami.

Does God intervene sometimes? I think God does as there are stories of, for a lack of a better word, "miracles". Of course, the other side of the argument is that it was just luck or happy circumstances..

[MisterB]

Mister B, you ask very good questions...

From what I see around me, I've never had a problem with there being a "God" but I have had a lot of problems with whether God really desires a personal relationship with me which is a basis of many Christian teachings. Also, I have wondered about the power of prayer.

My own opinion is that God doesn't intervene very often - if God continually intervened, then we would have no free will and most of the World's problems are caused by people exercising their free will. Of course there are also natural disasters such as tsunamis and earthquakes which cause heavy loss of life and many victims really had no choice of where they lived..I have no answer for that.

God is probably not going to stop the drunk driver from hitting an innocent pedestrian or on a larger scale, those folks in the path of a tsunami.

Does God intervene sometimes? I think God does as there are stories of, for a lack of a better word, "miracles". Of course, the other side of the argument is that it was just luck or happy circumstances..

probably the best response Ive heard yet... thank you... Im not trying to change anyones mind either way...Im just asking questions and would like a civil discussion on this... anyway... think about it all and enjoy your weekend

[Loismustdie]

probably the best response Ive heard yet... thank you... Im not trying to change anyones mind either way...Im just asking questions and would like a civil discussion on this... anyway... think about it all and enjoy your weekend

God intervenes all of the time in the lives of faithful christians, as far as the rest of the world goes, that's satans realm. Biblically, it's that simple. Now, what consitutes a christian is up for debate, and what prayer is is debateable as well, not to mention what Gods role is in answering said prayer.

[crowTrobot]

God intervenes all of the time in the lives of faithful christians, as far as the rest of the world goes, that's satans realm.

that's a divisive thing to say, even by fundamentalist christian standards.