When The Ace Hits The Turn

[amarillotg 0]

Full Tilt PokerLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $2/$48 playersConverterPre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG+1 with 9 9 UTG folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero calls.Flop: 5 3 T (7.5SB, 2 players)Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO calls.Turn: A (5.75BB, 2 players)Hero bets????i find this situation arises quite often for me lately. villain 3-bets pre-flop indication either a decent pp or big unpaired Ace. when i c/r the flop and he only calls, we can for the most part take him off any overpair to the board. (obviously on occasion he will be waiting till the turn to pop his overpair for 2bbs)this leaves only his big unpaired Ace hands. so when the Ace hits the turn what the best line to take?im pretty sure im beat here but the pot is decently large and i want to get my hand to showdown do i not?maybe im overthinking a standard play but i hate all my options here.

[randy 0]

I did state in another topic that I know little to none about limit poker and I am just about to start playing it, but regardless of that I am going to give this a shot.I don’t think I would be betting here unless I had a read. If he has pockets you are most likely behind, if he had any big ace your behind, I doubt he has A-10. On the other side of the coin though he has to put you in for a big hand so if he had kings, queens, etc in the hole you may induce a fold as the Ace may bother him as much as it sucks for you. If you were to bet though you would need to know if you can make him lay down high pockets, some people have trouble letting go of those cards and plain stubbornness would cost you the hand. If you were to bet the turn I would only check/call the river, a raise there wouldn’t cause a fold and this is a marginal situation so it’s probably not worth investing. That’s what I think for limit, I am sure you all have better idea but if I am going to start limit I need to be thinking about it and getting responses to my thoughts.

[Actuary 3]

Randy...good stuff.Keep posting.it helps.************I b/f turnc/f river

[liveactiononly 0]

I was thinkin bet and if he raises then you can safely assume he has you beat, assuming you have a decent read that he is not running a bluff.

[amarillotg 0]

I b/f turnc/f river

yeah, i guess this pretty clear. seemed like a good discussion topic last nite.

[KowboyKoop 0]

bet/fold turn. Lot of donkish players will have a JT, QT, KT in this spot and may possibly fold if you bet representing an ace....

[screech 0]

If you can narrow his range down, why not just check/fold?

bet/fold turn. Lot of donkish players will have a JT, QT, KT in this spot and may possibly fold if you bet representing an ace....

Uh, hero check/raised the flop. Unless he has AT, villian has no reason to fear the ace.Also, if a player is donkish aggressive enough to 3-bet something like JT pf, he will usually 3-bet this flop as well. Even if he doesn't, a donkish player is never folding a pair of tens on the turn. And besides, while there are players out there who would 3-bet something like QJ pf (or worse), the majority of them don't. Betting because he could be up to something strange is no reason to take a particular action. It has to be weighted, like eveyrthing else. You wouldn't call down an AKQ flop with 99 after you got 3-bet pf because you have seen some player once upon a time 3-bet pf with 72, would you.Anyway, the point is, most players simply aren't folding a pair that beats you once that ace hits. And most players would 3-bet an overpair on the flop. So that means villians most likely hand is something Ax. And even though there may be a 5% chance he is dicking around with something like KJ here, that is not enough to warrant putting any extra money into this pot.

[Actuary 3]

If you can narrow his range down, why not just check/fold?Uh, hero check/raised the flop. Unless he has AT, villian has no reason to fear the ace.

villain's are not as smart as you.There's a 20% chance he fears it.

[screech 0]

villain's are not as smart as you.There's a 20% chance he fears it.

More like 15% .But even if he fears it, what are the chances he acts on that fear and folds a better pair? We make money because most of our opponents call down too much. So why try to bluff with a hand that has so few outs?While this play may be good vs a weak tightie, it just isn't profitable against your average opponetn.

[Actuary 3]

I'm trying to slice with a razor..and fold better hands when I need to and value bet worse ones...so in this case: I will Will Him to Fold JJ!:DScreech,my man.Limit just takes too much thinking.

[checkymcfold 0]

i will raise this ace with any two cards if i am the villain.i will also c/f this turn sometimes if i am the hero, but b/f it the rest against most internet types.most important question: what is CO's 3-betting range? this is super, super important to take notes on on all players.

[Suited_Up 2]

i will raise this ace with any two cards if i am the villain.i will also c/f this turn sometimes if i am the hero, but b/f it the rest against most internet types.most important question: what is CO's 3-betting range? this is super, super important to take notes on on all players.

Without generalzing TOO much....This is a 2/4 limit game on Full Tilt... Unless you know the guy is a semi-maniac, I dont see many 3-bets without a hand that has you beat right now. Not on this site at least.Regardless... I think a c/f is just asking to get bet off the hand so I prefer the b/f.

[screech 0]

Suited,This

Without generalzing TOO much....This is a 2/4 limit game on Full Tilt... Unless you know the guy is a semi-maniac, I dont see many 3-bets without a hand that has you beat right now. Not on this site at least.

seems to contradict

Regardless... I think a c/f is just asking to get bet off the hand so I prefer the b/f.

If you can't see him having too many hands you beat, what is the point of throwing more money in the pot?Ok, so he may have a hand you beat, like 88 or KJ. But I think these hands represent such a small % of an average players range, and will usually take the free card anyway, that it is much better to check and fold (or check and check/call the river if villian checks behind).

[amarillotg 0]

good discussion guys.screech, i think your points are very good. im pretty sure im beat here, so why bet/fold when check/folding is probably correct. like i said in the OP, there are not many hands he can have on the turn that im beating.