Jump to content


Answer To Quizz Question #18


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 DanielNegreanu

DanielNegreanu

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Root Admin
  • 8,278 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas

Posted 17 May 2006 - 06:56 PM

This is a very important Razz concept to understand. Razz is a pretty simple game, so the difference between geing a good player and an average player is getting full value for your hand when you are a statistical favorite. In this case, based on your opponent's board you are certain that your four card draw is better than his. He is drawing to a 7-6, while you are drawing to a 7-5. True, you could both double pair and the Queen low will win, but that won't happen often enough to worry about. In the end, this hand is pretty elementary. Your hand will make the best hand almost 55% of the time. Razz is a game of small edges, so since we are absolutely certain that we are a favorite on fifth street, anything less than a raise would be a very big mistake.
Posted Image

#2 Naked_Cowboy

Naked_Cowboy

    the dynamo of volition

  • Members
  • 4,479 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas, TX
  • Interests:playing all your best games

Posted 17 May 2006 - 07:25 PM

You totally cheated off my answer.
~certified bumhunter~

#3 HangukMiguk

HangukMiguk

    I'm so scannable.

  • Members
  • 13,685 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:China

Posted 17 May 2006 - 09:48 PM

:lol:this was pretty elementary, but hey, i'll take a razz question however i can get one.


#4 Rocketwadster

Rocketwadster

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 3,816 posts
  • Location:Cambridge, Ontario
  • Interests:Gambling, Sports

Posted 18 May 2006 - 04:27 AM

Pretty sure there are a ton of players out there that didnt get the correct answer, myself ALMOST being one of them (I think that was the first correct decision Ive ever made in Razz...lol)I am curious how we KNOW we are the statistical favorite in situations like this during the play of the hand, as we can't be punching in values into a "calculator" on some website...

#5 shpaget

shpaget

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,603 posts
  • Location:Canada, eh
  • Interests:beer

Posted 18 May 2006 - 09:29 AM

View PostRocketwadster, on Thursday, May 18th, 2006, 4:27 AM, said:

Pretty sure there are a ton of players out there that didnt get the correct answer, myself ALMOST being one of them (I think that was the first correct decision Ive ever made in Razz...lol)I am curious how we KNOW we are the statistical favorite in situations like this during the play of the hand, as we can't be punching in values into a "calculator" on some website...
I think a lot of people get confused in Razz and think we need 8-or better to qualify (or, at the very least, simply get mixed up and start thinking in terms of 8-or better)...and in 8-or better, we'd be a "dog" in the sense that we might not make our hand - though if we both make our hand we'd be a favourite.But, in this case you know that almost always you'll both be drawing to better cards than the queen, meaning you are winning until he draws an 9 and you draw a Ten (and even then, you have 14 outs with two cards to come)....basically, for your King to play you'd need to draw two duplicate cards in your final three.You KNOW you are a favourite much the same way you know you are when you hold AA preflop in hold'em, or when you hold top-set on a rainbow board, or an OESD with flush draw and two overs....practice.In this case, you're drawing to 7-5, for sure...he's drawing to 76 at best...he could have a pair, or 98, in the hole, but your WORST case scenario (he has A2 buried) is you are a favourite to win.
"Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand."

#6 Naked_Cowboy

Naked_Cowboy

    the dynamo of volition

  • Members
  • 4,479 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas, TX
  • Interests:playing all your best games

Posted 18 May 2006 - 10:44 AM

Daniel called my response "dead on" last night, so here it is.

Quote

Based on only that info, the answer is raise. 1. Rarely will the King or Queen play, you would have to pair on both following streets. You really need to be looking at what he could be drawing to. 2. Your 75 draw is slightly better than his possible 76 draw, and you KNOW your down cards are ideal for your draw (not knowing what 2s 4s and 6s are dead, if you both catch a baby on 6th that doesn't pair, he has a very slim redraw to beat you. 3. His bet could be a feeler. He's attempting to define his hand to you. From his perspective, he is representing essentially the same thing you have down, and if you have a 10-Q (or even 9 depending on your history), he may suspect you will throw your hand away having caught another big card. A raise redefines to him that if he is definitely not the favorite.The only sticky situation is if you catch a 6 and he catches a baby. It may have made you a solid low, but it either made him a better low or paired him and it's going to cost you a bet or two to find out.Conclusion: Based on no knowledge of other cards dealt (ie. heads up razz final table), you are in the lead and should raise.

~certified bumhunter~

#7 EmOEmU

EmOEmU

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 47 posts

Posted 21 May 2006 - 05:08 AM

View PostDanielNegreanu, on Wednesday, May 17th, 2006, 6:56 PM, said:

Razz is a pretty simple game,
why is razz a particular simple game? this hand seems kind of complicatedhttp://www.howardled...r-article7.html"An analysis of a seemingly regular razz hand at the Bellagio illustrates the complexity behind the game"

#8 Naked_Cowboy

Naked_Cowboy

    the dynamo of volition

  • Members
  • 4,479 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas, TX
  • Interests:playing all your best games

Posted 21 May 2006 - 01:24 PM

When you know how to think, the game is nearly mechanical. The problem is, most people don't know the basic assumptions and how to think.
~certified bumhunter~

#9 cu in 4years Dan

cu in 4years Dan

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 2,276 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Holdem, Ohama, Razz, Lowball, 7 card stud

Posted 22 May 2006 - 11:03 PM

hoorah! im on a roll for 3 quizz questions in a row correct!.

#10 LooseCannon

LooseCannon

    Poker Forum Regular

  • Members
  • 107 posts

Posted 26 May 2006 - 12:52 AM

I didn't have a chance to answer this one, but not only would you raise it, but if reraised, you should be willing to cap it.

#11 goldentglf

goldentglf

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. Louis, MO

Posted 04 July 2006 - 08:33 PM

ya
"they call him Haywire Mitsubishi because he drives an Eclipse. they call me baldo becuase i shave my head."

-BALDO

#12 Naked_Cowboy

Naked_Cowboy

    the dynamo of volition

  • Members
  • 4,479 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas, TX
  • Interests:playing all your best games

Posted 05 July 2006 - 08:06 AM

View Postgoldentglf, on Tuesday, July 4th, 2006, 8:33 PM, said:

ya
Good input, thanks for chiming in. A solid +1
~certified bumhunter~




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users