Jump to content


Quiz Question #18


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

Poll: Razz (173 member(s) have cast votes)

What is the Right Play?

  1. Call (25 votes [14.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.45%

  2. Raise (142 votes [82.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 82.08%

  3. Fold... don't be an idiot!!! (6 votes [3.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.47%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 DanielNegreanu

DanielNegreanu

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Root Admin
  • 8,279 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas

Posted 17 May 2006 - 12:32 PM

Fast forward to fifth street. Your opponent's board looks like this:(x-x) 7-6-Q Your hand is this:(A-3) 5-7-K Your opponent bets on fifth street, what is the correct play?
Posted Image

#2 tylerc

tylerc

    Poker Forum Regular

  • Members
  • 110 posts

Posted 17 May 2006 - 12:57 PM

i dont understand. there is no way you arent ahead. isnt this an automatic raise?

#3 Naked_Cowboy

Naked_Cowboy

    the dynamo of volition

  • Members
  • 4,479 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas, TX
  • Interests:playing all your best games

Posted 17 May 2006 - 12:59 PM

OOOOHH!! A question I know.Based on only that info, the answer is raise. 1. Rarely will the King or Queen play, you would have to pair on both following streets. You really need to be looking at what he could be drawing to. 2. Your 75 draw is slightly better than his possible 76 draw, and you KNOW your down cards are ideal for your draw (not knowing what 2s 4s and 6s are dead, if you both catch a baby on 6th that doesn't pair, he has a very slim redraw to beat you. 3. His bet could be a feeler. He's attempting to define his hand to you. From his perspective, he is representing essentially the same thing you have down, and if you have a 10-Q (or even 9 depending on your history), he may suspect you will throw your hand away having caught another big card. A raise redefines to him that if he is definitely not the favorite.The only sticky situation is if you catch a 6 and he catches a baby. It may have made you a solid low, but it either made him a better low or paired him and it's going to cost you a bet or two to find out.Conclusion: Based on no knowledge of other cards dealt (ie. heads up razz final table), you are in the lead and should raise.
~certified bumhunter~

#4 XXEddie

XXEddie

    I have a pair, I have a top pair.

  • Members
  • 13,401 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Centennial, CO

Posted 17 May 2006 - 01:07 PM

callyoure drawing to the best hand no matter whatbut thats excatly it, youre DRAWING to it

#5 CodyHartman

CodyHartman

    My Son is More Punk Rawk Then You

  • Members
  • 3,687 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PDX, Orygun
  • Interests:My new baby boy, my pugs, my awesome wife of 6 years, MMA, pokah, and my nintendo DS.
  • Favorite Poker Game:$.50/1 LHE

Posted 17 May 2006 - 01:33 PM

raise put pressure on the other guy, you may get a free crad on 6th. He may be betting on the fact that he has a better low. God ony knows what his whole cards are, chances are you are ahead when 6th comes unless of curse you brick again and he hits pretty. Get agressive b/c you are drawing to the better low.
Stars: KingOfDaClub
UB & Tilt: CodyHartman

Need rakeback? PM me

#6 liveactiononly

liveactiononly

    Poker Forum Regular

  • Members
  • 228 posts

Posted 17 May 2006 - 02:20 PM

View PostXXEddie, on Wednesday, May 17th, 2006, 2:07 PM, said:

callyoure drawing to the best hand no matter whatbut thats excatly it, youre DRAWING to it
You are likely to get three bet here if you raise because you have a king showing even though you have a great draw. I would wait for a decent 6th street card and you will have a perfect spot to raise against an opponent who will often make second best holdings. Wait until you have made that draw before you start raising in this particular case.
If you see a kid in a casino who doesnt look 21, dont hate on him and have him carded just because he is the one raking in all your chips.

#7 DrZebra

DrZebra

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 625 posts

Posted 17 May 2006 - 02:34 PM

View PostDanielNegreanu, on Wednesday, May 17th, 2006, 1:32 PM, said:

Fast forward to fifth street. Your opponent's board looks like this:(x-x) 7-6-Q Your hand is this:(A-3) 5-7-K Your opponent bets on fifth street, what is the correct play?
Interesting.If you catch a 6 you lose unless he catches a 5 or misses.You need a 2 or 4. He's probably got a 2 or 4 and likely has an ace. He's actually drawing better than you. Seems like a fold.
"...the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."-J.M.Keynes

#8 Naked_Cowboy

Naked_Cowboy

    the dynamo of volition

  • Members
  • 4,479 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas, TX
  • Interests:playing all your best games

Posted 17 May 2006 - 02:45 PM

That is unbelievably bad logic, and even though i'm pretty sure you were kidding:As you're holding each others out more than likely, the better scenario is to catch cards over the 7. If you catch better on 6th, you are ahead. Likewise, the oppossite is true. As far as odds go, these basically cancel each other out. If you catch the same card, your lead increases.The concept of "he probably has a 2 and / or 4" is ridiculous, because if he does, you are holding 2 of the cards he needs. These also cancel each other out. If he has a 2 4 down, you have equal chances of catching your needed baby.If you catch a 6 and he catches a baby, there's at least a 30% chance that he paired, IF he truly has what he's representing - which he may not as the only knowledge we have is that he bet out on 5th. If you catch a 6 and he catches anything over a 7, he's drawing extremely slim.
~certified bumhunter~

#9 jayboogie

jayboogie

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 2,493 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 17 May 2006 - 02:55 PM

At the risk of looking like an idiot, since I don't play razz at all I'll add my thoughts. I believe this is a raise, looks like an easy raise to me. You are definitely ahead here no matter what cards your opponent holds. The way I'd play razz is to get my money in the pot when I have the best draw, which I believe is the proper way to play. Razz is a drawing game, where you're betting the best draw, not made hands typically. Are you going to regret capping most streets with A234 to start just because you catch 234 on the next streets? I don't think so.(A3)57K is ahead of (A2)76Q, which is your opponent's best case scenario, so you're surely ahead of all his possible holdings, and whether you catch a bad card on 6th and 7th is irrelevant.

#10 kilgoretrout

kilgoretrout

    Poker Forum Regular

  • Members
  • 135 posts

Posted 17 May 2006 - 04:15 PM

View PostDanielNegreanu, on Wednesday, May 17th, 2006, 12:32 PM, said:

Fast forward to fifth street. Your opponent's board looks like this:(x-x) 7-6-Q Your hand is this:(A-3) 5-7-K Your opponent bets on fifth street, what is the correct play?
You have 55% chance to win the hand, virtually regardless of his hole cards. So you have a soild equity edge on the hand. I would raise and if possible cap on this hand.

#11 theresa113

theresa113

    Hi There!

  • Members
  • 5,540 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Orlando, Florida
  • Interests:Poker!

Posted 17 May 2006 - 04:27 PM

I love playing Razz but I suck at it so my honest answer is that I would just call. My logic (which I am sure it is flawed) is that I do not have a hand yet and the next card could go either way for either player. I think a raise would get called. Here is what is tough for me... how many people were at the table? I mean, if the table is full and the other player is in the hand, his or her 2 hole cards must be low as well. So, I think a call is the best option If this is heads up, then I would raise. There would be no telling what the hole cards are and I know I am on a good draw. Anyway... this is probably all gibberish... I am looking forward to the answer.
Be my friend on Facebook

Blue and White Ignite! Go Magic!

#12 Mercury69

Mercury69

    Half man! Half man!

  • Members
  • 14,244 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pftph!
  • Favorite Poker Game:NLHE

Posted 24 May 2006 - 12:31 PM

Not really sure why, but I raise. A3 in the hole is solid and you have your opponent slightly beat on the up cards. As people say, the K and Q probably won't come into play.
"We had all the momentum. We were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look west, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark, that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back." —Raoul Duke, Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas

"Those are brave men knocking at the door. Let's go and kill them!" - Tyrion Lannister

#13 KVOM

KVOM

    Poker Forum Regular

  • Members
  • 197 posts

Posted 30 June 2006 - 06:21 PM

One thought is that raising may win the hand immediately, if opponent is bluffing. OTOH, I think call is the proper play, since if he catches better than you on 6th street you'll have to fold.

#14 Naked_Cowboy

Naked_Cowboy

    the dynamo of volition

  • Members
  • 4,479 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas, TX
  • Interests:playing all your best games

Posted 06 July 2006 - 07:51 AM

View PostKVOM, on Friday, June 30th, 2006, 6:21 PM, said:

One thought is that raising may win the hand immediately, if opponent is bluffing. OTOH, I think call is the proper play, since if he catches better than you on 6th street you'll have to fold.
I like that you answered this a month after the answer and numerous explanations were posted, and still got it wrong.
~certified bumhunter~

#15 The Nuts

The Nuts

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 785 posts
  • Location:Penn State University

Posted 14 July 2006 - 10:48 AM

This has already been answered, but I didn't look at it.Answer is raise because within the next couple of cards, those two paint cards will probably be inconsequential and not count in the final five card low. Taking out those two paint cards, the odds are very strong that your hand is best at fifth street.
SuperUberBob: I ****ing hate this game
Zach6668: lol
Zubial: stop playing it
SuperUberBob: I like playing, just not the losing part
Zach6668: LOLZ

#16 Ramram84

Ramram84

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 79 posts
  • Favorite Poker Game:limit holdem

Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:53 PM

I would make the raise in this position for a few reasons. 1. Obviously I'm drawing to the better hand on 6th street regardless of what hole cards my opponent holds2. Put pressure on my opponent by raising. I am very likely to get a call from my opponent simply because he/she can't see my A-3. I would like to get money into the pot when I'm clearly going to get called.3. The last thing I want to do is fold on 6th street if I draw a bad card or my opponent draws a good one. By putting more money in the pot, I will be forced to play this hand to 7th even if 6th street is a complete miss.That is my two cents

#17 shpaget

shpaget

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,603 posts
  • Location:Canada, eh
  • Interests:beer

Posted 28 August 2006 - 12:38 PM

Fold - it's quite obvious that 6th and 7th street are gonna bring you two more kings.
"Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand."

#18 copernicus

copernicus

    Poker Forum God

  • Members
  • 10,676 posts
  • Interests:Hockey; poker...duh

Posted 01 September 2006 - 08:07 PM

View PostDrZebra, on Wednesday, May 17th, 2006, 6:34 PM, said:

Interesting.If you catch a 6 you lose unless he catches a 5 or misses.You need a 2 or 4. He's probably got a 2 or 4 and likely has an ace. He's actually drawing better than you. Seems like a fold.
But the majority of cards are misses for both of you, and if you draw equally on the miss side, you are ahead. Between the 2s and 4s that are left and the misses, it looks like you have more outs, even though he has a couple of extra outs to the nuts.
___________


Wave upon wave of Demented Avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users