15 replies to this topic

[Footballguru]

a couple minutesa go in a 50$ buy in, my stack is 100, i have aj in sb.
few people limp, i complete, flop comes 10kq rainbow

i lead out with a pot sized bet of 2 bucks and every one folds

shoould I have checked?

my thought process was pretty simple, that on a flop like that, someone had to have something to call a blind leading out...i was hoping someone with a pair of kings would raise me and i could then trap...

was i wrong, in that my hand is so strong i should lsowplay?

advice appreciated...

[Smasharoo]

Just bet. Straights are vulnerable hands. Everyone else whiffed the flop, which isn't that unusual considering you hit it 3 times out of 3.

good luck.

[Garn]

Just bet. Straights are vulnerable hands. Everyone else whiffed the flop, which isn't that unusual considering you hit it 3 times out of 3.

good luck.

maybe it's just me but I usually slow play the nuts. Atleast look to check raise

[rookie2619]

Youmade the right play, dont question yourself.

[Smasharoo]

maybe it's just me but I usually slow play the nuts. Atleast look to check raise

It's just a straight. It's not like he flopped quads.

good luck

[nomad_monad]

maybe it's just me but I usually slow play the nuts. Atleast look to check raise

It's just a straight. It's not like he flopped quads.

good luck

Ok Smash, but it's a rainbow broadway flop in an unraised pot. What hand is he really vulnerable to here? Potentially a set drawing to a house, but it's an unraised pot so any sets that fit this board dont seem likely. Two pair is possible, but is it really going to let it get checked through? All other hands either whiffed or paired one of the board cards weakly. It seems like the main danger here is a turn card that destroys action (A,J,9) rather than making our hand vulnerable, no? The most dangerous vulnerability I see here is a turn card that turns this pot into a chop.

[DrawingDeadInDM]

maybe it's just me but I usually slow play the nuts. Atleast look to check raise

Meh.

Ok Smash, but it's a rainbow broadway flop in an unraised pot. What hand is he really vulnerable to here? Potentially a set drawing to a house, but it's an unraised pot so any sets that fit this board dont seem likely. Two pair is possible, but is it really going to let it get checked through? All other hands either whiffed or paired one of the board cards weakly. It seems like the main danger here is a turn card that destroys action (A,J,9) rather than making our hand vulnerable, no? The most dangerous vulnerability I see here is a turn card that turns this pot into a chop.

Not like anyone has ever limped with TT or better.

Besides, what card will come that's really going to give us action on our hand? Another Jack, so we can chop it up? Another ace, so we can chop it up? Another King, maybe give someone a boat? Will the turn bring a flush draw?

Let's slowplay it so someone can go runner-runner boat with their K5o from the SB, or maybe hit running flush cards with their 65s on the button?

Or, we can just lead, hope to extract value from one pair/two pair hands, while our equity is the highest, and before the board turns ugly.

It's not really a difficult concept.

[nomad_monad]

Not like anyone has ever limped with TT or better.

Besides, what card will come that's really going to give us action on our hand? Another Jack, so we can chop it up? Another ace, so we can chop it up? Another King, maybe give someone a boat? Will the turn bring a flush draw?

Let's slowplay it so someone can go runner-runner boat with their K5o from the SB, or maybe hit running flush cards with their 65s on the button?

Or, we can just lead, hope to extract value from one pair/two pair hands, while our equity is the highest, and before the board turns ugly.

I was more or less speaking to vulnerabilities in the case that this hand gets checked through on the flop only. In that case, it seems to me the main vulnerability is a chop. I think any hand like TT or better that limped here that spiked a set, you're going to hear from on the flop regardless. Same with two pair. And I'm definitely not advocating we continue any sort of passivity on the turn so someone can go runner-runner on us. That would be silly.

As far as another card coming that will give us action: not many like you say. If you're slowplaying this at all I think you do it strictly with the intention of inducing a bluff, rather than hoping someone catches up.

EDIT - A flop bluff, that is. If you elect to check the flop and it gets checked through, checking the turn again is just asking for trouble.

[HurricaneKyle]

Lead out here all the time for the reasons that DDM mentioned. Cards can come on the turn that may result in you chopping and even worse if you check call and the bettor has two pair then you missed a spot to win a big pot. Especially the broadway straight because people like to play the high cards in hold'em and that flop is going to have hit someone almost every time you flop it.

[jhub30]

I think about the only time you should check this is when there are very aggressive players between you that will fire away. As everyone said, there's not many turn cards that are going to bring you anymore action.

[fckthis]

I think its OK to slowplay sometimes, but dont make it a habit to give free cards when you have the vulernable nuts.

Apparently, and this if from a long forgotten thread, Sklansky says you should generally only slowplay when pots are small. Any thoughts?

[nomad_monad]

I think its OK to slowplay sometimes, but dont make it a habit to give free cards when you have the vulernable nuts.

Apparently, and this if from a long forgotten thread, Sklansky says you should generally only slowplay when pots are small. Any thoughts?

Yeah, he says that in "The Theory of Poker". If I remember correctly, it mostly has to do with the rationale that in a big pot, you're happy to take down the pot now. Plus, in a bigger pot, your opponents are more likely to have committed themselves, either odds-wise or psychologically, so the deception value of stringing someone along isn't really necessary.

Regardless, another thing to really consider is that slowplaying a big pot can be really dangerous from a tilt/psychology standpoint. It's much more of a kick in the balls to lose a big pot because you let someone suck out on you when you could've taken it down earlier, or at least gotten all your money in as a favorite.

[Scott3705]

By C/ring, you probably shut out a jack, lone king, maybe even bottom 2. By leading, you got those hands to come along and keep putting money in the pot. Also, if you have anyone w/ a big enough hand to get it in on the flop, you're going to get it in. then, we're faced w/ the fact that there are still 6 cards in the deck that are going to kill any action on the turn that we may have gotten from hands that would call the flop.

Betting this flop is going to win you more in the LR then trying to squeek out a slowplay. Unless you run into some one who is reading the NL section of supersystem at the time, I like overbetting this pot.

[reynaldo124]

id bet it out like you have top pair/ weak kicker. that way anyone that thinks they have you beat might raise or at least call. and if they dont have that beat, you werent going to get any action anyway. usually if you wait until the turn to attack it will be pretty obvious you have a monster, unless youre playing against complete idiots.

take this hand for example: I have AK in BB and check, flop comes Q-J-10 rainbow. Another guy has K-9... we both slowplay until the turn, he just calls my huge re-raise. the river pairs the board and makes runner-runner flush possible. we both check. i said 'wow youre either really good (put me on AK) or really bad (slowplaying non nut-str8 w/ two to a suit on board). bottom line, if you slowplay, you might scare off 2nd nut hands into investing anymore, and youll waste a whole turn of betting your best hand.

oh, from the guy's response, he was really bad. shocker.

[MasterLJ]

Just bet. Straights are vulnerable hands. Everyone else whiffed the flop, which isn't that unusual considering you hit it 3 times out of 3.

good luck.

Slow playing the nuts is an uncreative way to play it, especially with straights. Your straight is not improving and betting out is generally the most deceptive play which also happens to be the most profitable.

Smash is 100% correct. Bet out.

Meh.
Not like anyone has ever limped with TT or better.

Besides, what card will come that's really going to give us action on our hand? Another Jack, so we can chop it up? Another ace, so we can chop it up? Another King, maybe give someone a boat? Will the turn bring a flush draw?

Let's slowplay it so someone can go runner-runner boat with their K5o from the SB, or maybe hit running flush cards with their 65s on the button?

Or, we can just lead, hope to extract value from one pair/two pair hands, while our equity is the highest, and before the board turns ugly.

It's not really a difficult concept.

This is exactly why slow playing is stupid. Nice post.

Some dude flopped a str on me the other day. I'm on the button with 3d5d. Flop is TQK with one diamond. I take a stab, he calls. I give up the hand obviously, he checks to me on a diamond turn, I check behind. River brings a beautiful 3rd diamond. He overbets the pot, I put him all in. Sad thing is that he didn't even call crying, he called immediately. HEEeeEeeeEe HAWWWWWWWWWWwwwwWwW!

Free cards are -EV.

[Peak01]

This is an easy bet EVERY TIME! No need to say more on this.