22 replies to this topic

[Jordan]

$400 NL 7 handed.

Villian is pretty solid, has $2,600 on the table.

Hero has $394 and is sitting with A Q on the button.

Villian is UTG+1 and raises to $16 after UTG folds, all folds to me on the button and I call $16, blinds fold.

FLOP :: 7 J Q ($38)

villian bets $25, hero raises to $75, villian calls $50

TURN :: 10 ($188)

villian checks, hero checks.

RIVER :: Q ($188)

villian bets $188, hero ....

- Jordan

[MasterLJ]

Wow, tough one.

I'm leaning towards folding.

The only reasonable hands that you beat are AA and KK given the circumstances, and he'd probably put you all in on the flop especially given his stack.

I think it was a mistake not to bet the turn. He'd let you know right away if he had AK and it'd probably cost you less than $188.

[Jordan]

Wow, tough one.

I'm leaning towards folding.

The only reasonable hands that you beat are AA and KK given the circumstances, and he'd probably put you all in on the flop especially given his stack.

I think it was a mistake not to bet the turn. He'd let you know right away if he had AK and it'd probably cost you less than $188.

Valid.

I thought I was beat on the turn, so took a free card for a straight. The river kinda confused me though with me hitting trips and all.

How much would you bet on the turn (if we bet), I'm thinking $125ish.

- Jordan

[MasterLJ]

Valid.

I thought I was beat on the turn, so took a free card for a straight. The river kinda confused me though with me hitting trips and all.

How much would you bet on the turn (if we bet), I'm thinking $125ish.

- Jordan

$125 is definitely good.

[crankin]

Hmmm... I think I'd make a crying call. My best guesses are that villain has either AJ, KQ, or JJ. Two of those make you happy. One makes you unhappy.

I agree with MasterLJ, though. I really think you need to bet this turn to see where you stand.

[Jordan]

Hmmm... I think I'd make a crying call. My best guesses are that villain has either AJ, KQ, or JJ. Two of those make you happy. One makes you unhappy.

I agree with MasterLJ, though. I really think you need to bet this turn to see where you stand.

Normally I do be the turn. But my intuition really was telling me I was behind and to take a free card for my straight.

Now, on the river my "intuition" is challenged cause I have made trips and now am lead into for a pot sized bet.

I agree there are def. few few hands I actually am ahead of here to make this call. It's times like there I wish there was a timebank at all poker sites.

--

Say he bets much weaker, like $100 - $150, do we even think of folding getting that price, or does the $188 kinda scare us?

I guess it's kinda like the question, how much does our "read" or "intuition" cost...

- Jordan

[MasterLJ]

Normally I do be the turn. But my intuition really was telling me I was behind and to take a free card for my straight.

Now, on the river my "intuition" is challenged cause I have made trips and now am lead into for a pot sized bet.

I agree there are def. few few hands I actually am ahead of here to make this call. It's times like there I wish there was a timebank at all poker sites.

--

Say he bets much weaker, like $100 - $150, do we even think of folding getting that price, or does the $188 kinda scare us?

I guess it's kinda like the question, how much does our "read" or "intuition" cost...

- Jordan

I'm actually more afraid of a bet of $125 here on the river. $188 is exactly the pot and is overkill for AK and could be the only way a small pp can win, or perhaps a total bluff... but that's about all you're beating.

EDIT: Btw, I normally don't make calls like this, but I'm going to shoot in the dark and say that he has the same hand.

[Peak01]

Bet $100-$125 on turn.

Fold on river since best case you split the pot. He doesn't appear to be scared of two queens on the River.

I think he has AK or boated.

[crankin]

Bet $100-$125 on turn.

Fold on river since best case you split the pot. He doesn't appear to be scared of two queens on the River.

I think he has AK or boated.

MasterLJ mentioned AK as well, but I just don't see that. Does AK call the raise on the flop? He's getting 2.8:1 on his money, and he *may* have 10 outs (if he doesn't give you credit for a set), which makes him about a 4:1 dog going into the turn. Maybe the implied odds can make up for it, but I can't call the flop raise with AK here.

[Peak01]

MasterLJ mentioned AK as well, but I just don't see that. Does AK call the raise on the flop? He's getting 2.8:1 on his money, and he *may* have 10 outs (if he doesn't give you credit for a set), which makes him about a 4:1 dog going into the turn. Maybe the implied odds can make up for it, but I can't call the flop raise with AK here.

AK with either one or both cards being a club could call.

[DrZebra]

MasterLJ mentioned AK as well, but I just don't see that. Does AK call the raise on the flop? He's getting 2.8:1 on his money, and he *may* have 10 outs (if he doesn't give you credit for a set), which makes him about a 4:1 dog going into the turn. Maybe the implied odds can make up for it, but I can't call the flop raise with AK here.

8 9

[tapeworm]

I don't see why he would pot the river with AK, since you could have a boat, right? It seems he either has a boat or is bluffing, hoping that you were on flush/str8 draw and missed.

So what boats could he have? He could have QJ/Q10 depending on his UG raising standards. He could have JJ. The question is whether he would "slowplay" a flopped set by not reraising the flop and by checking the turn allowing a possible free card on a draw heavy board. My guess is No.

Based on the above, it seems he likely does not have a FH, but this is still a tough one. My instincts tell me to fold, but I could see this as a crying call. He could have KQ and be trying to get another Q to fold? I don't know. The problem is that you beat very little as you say...Also, if he does in fact put you on a missed draw, then his hand probably has good showdown/bluff inducing ability making this pot-bet unlikely.

Finally, when you say you felt you were beat on the turn, but now may have the better hand, what hand beats you on the turn, but doesn't anymore? Since there are almost none, it looks like it is best to stick with your read and fold.

[Jordan]

Finally, when you say you felt you were beat on the turn, but now may have the better hand, what hand beats you on the turn, but doesn't anymore? Since there are almost none, it looks like it is best to stick with your read and fold.

Yea, that's a good pgraph as to following reads.

I put him on JJ/AK/AQ/QQ or a big draw to call my flop raise. I really just didn't like the T. I don't know why. Maybe it was his big stack, I just didn't feel right. Everything was telling me on the turn I was beat, so yea, even while "improving" on the river I still wasn't fond of my hand.

I just suck at applying reads sometimes in the middle of a hand with 13 seconds or so to re-think and make the best decision.

- Jordan

[tapeworm]

I just suck at applying reads sometimes in the middle of a hand with 13 seconds or so to re-think and make the best decision.

Speaking of which, is there any site which has a timebank for cash games? I have only seen it for tournies. It would be great though for higher level cash games. Even if it was only like 30-60 seconds that you could use for the Entire time you are at the table.

As an additional comment on your play...I do this alot too where I bet the flop, check the turn and call the river bet. It puts you in tough spots where you gotta try to catch bluffs, but can sometimes be profitable, especially if you have a redraw. In general though, it is better agianst players who you have a good read on.

[Jordan]

smash/scott.

thoughts? curious as to other POV

- Jordan

[krup24]

smash/scott.

thoughts? curious as to other POV

- Jordan

well since you didn't ask min i won't give any

I actually like the way you played this hand provided that you called the river. I like the flop raise and I also think the turn check is nice as well. The Q hits the river and gives us trips so we basically have to call gettn better than 2-1. But the more I look at it the more I put him on 77 or JJ.

[Scott3705]

A couple things:
1. This man can't be that solid to be sitting on $2600. I mean how solid are we talking?
2. Realize that you almost played this hand like you had a flush/str8 draw and made a play on the flop for a cheap river.

regardless, From a solid player... his range raising UTG is going to be 1010-AA, AK, AQs. (Was he starting to get giddy w/ his big stack by any chance which would widen this range).

by the end of the hand, all you are beating is AA, KK (neither of which probably let youget away w/ taking the lead from them on the flop. especially big stacked liked that and probably willing to pay off a set) His call actually seems more like AK first and then a set. I would just rather treat the Q on the river as a red 2.

Still, Like i said, I can't imagine him being a textbook, solid player w/ that stack. If he was getting more aggressive, he can be trying to bluff an OESFD that never got there. (Edit: meaning one that you held that never got there)

[Smasharoo]

I'd just call. His range of hands is close to 50/50 beatinglosing and don't think you get much value out of a raise, and folding without a really good read is out of the question.

I think you'll see AK/AQ a real lot.

good luck.

[Jordan]

well since you didn't ask min i won't give any

I actually like the way you played this hand provided that you called the river. I like the flop raise and I also think the turn check is nice as well. The Q hits the river and gives us trips so we basically have to call gettn better than 2-1. But the more I look at it the more I put him on 77 or JJ.

I love you. Send my special PMs.

- Jordan

[krup24]

I love you. Send my special PMs.

- Jordan

Sent