26 replies to this topic

[PrtyPSux]

I started playing about 3 or 4 months ago w/ my friends (5 to 7 handed small stakes NL) I didnt know anything other than what I had seen on TV and it seemed I was still winning almost every game against them, then I bought the Lederer dvd, then started playing online, bought two more dvd's (lederer's more secret's, Caro's Seminar), played bigger games online, then read Super System. Now after a few months I feel I have gained a huge amount of knowlege, enough for me to place high in big online tourneys and hold my own in the 200NL online tables. but now it seems I cant beat my friends (aren't they supposed to be dead money now?), there is just noooo way to beat them! they call any raise preflop, they call almost always on the flop (with ace high or something) all the way to the river. I cant bluff cause they'll call w/ top pair w/ out even thinking about the other possibilities... even worse I always have to fold good hands to their all- in bluffs because I actually think. how should I play these unbluffable calling staitions that keep outdrawing me whenever i dont have the nuts? should i have to improve my reads (which i think is the worst part of my game), or just play like them? thanks for ur time,,,[/quote]

[somnambulist]

I know how it feels The more you read / think about poker the more you realise there is to it and then it can get confusing. (Ignorance is bliss!)And then after beating the semi-advanced games you go back down to the crazy beginner games and find you can't win a thing.. Somebody once said that it's difficult to read beginners: if they don't know what they're doing how are you supposed to know? (not completely true: everyone will have patterns) .. whereas in more advanced games there is a certain logic to the plays. Remember that most of the stuff that you you read about /see on TV only applies to tough games. Many players have gone broke trying to use the Supersystem method to beat loose low limit online games. Don't become a victim of fancy play syndrome in these games. Straightforward, tight play does the job. I think a lot of calling stations have a bluff factor to them so don't be scared of calling them with good but not nut hands.

[wrto4556]

somnambulist said:

Straightforward, tight play does the job.  I think a lot of calling stations have a bluff factor to them so don't be scared of calling them with good but not nut hands.

Right. Don't bluff, bro. In super system it even has a little article over this. Doyle Brunson sais that some beginnners get really far in the big tournaments because good players bluff off all of their chips. Dont bluff bad players. They are going to call no matter what, so...bet when you have a good hand, and check when you don't....straightforward play. Of coarse you are going to get sucked out on. But think of it this way, it's helped me through alot of bad beats: "I am betting a hand that is about a 70% favorite to win. They will win 30% of the time...but the other 70% their chips are mine." Basically, calling stations are chips waiting to be taken. Don't get "fancy" and play as straight-forward as possible. If they don't get what straight-forward is, do you think they are gonna know what decptive is? Probably not. PS. It's boring playing bad players, all you do is bet when you got it, and check when you don't. But it's easy money.

[Wilderness]

Yeah, its boring and tedious playing against bad players, but its not complicated or challenging. They will keep calling with few outs which means that you will sometimes get sucked out on. At first I used to get pretty mad when someone would do that to me, but I've since calmed down and look at it just like the poster above me said: When they call with that crap and get lucky it just means that I will take their chips in the end because the numbers are way in my favor.

[LONEWOLF]

The best advice I can give is something I have learned from Daniel. To beat a specific type of player/ game, you must become that player. In other words, next time you go and play w/ your friends (for one night only), become them. Chase, bluff, become a call station, etc. Do this just for the one night, it will not only help y0ur image with them, but it will give you valuable info on how to beat them. To beat the enemy, you have got to think like the enemy. L*

[Metaphysician]

Tight if they know how to raise. Loose preflop if they are passive. Take any shot at seeing the flop you can, if you can do so at a bargain.

[Ebonwoulfe]

I know the sort of game he's talking about.It's the kind of game where you hear the phrase "Any two can win"My advice to you is simple:You will beat them due to your better knowledge of pot odds. That is your victory. Some implied odds, but mostly pot odds. You will only draw at your flush when the money offered by the pot is worth it. They won't.And what's great is they don't realize that they need to bet bigger to make your draw not worth it! It's games like this where there might be a .20 bet into a $2 pot and you will be seeing 10-1 pot odds for you to hit your 4-1 flush. You giggle gleefully, knowing that they didn't bet you out! Suckers!It kinda sucks, but play AA just as you would a medium pair. Hit a set? You're rockin' now! Miss it? Well, see what everyone else does and decide where you are.Oh and bet for value like there's no tomorrow. They're probably calling too much.

[Rhavin]

If they call everything, then use semibluffs to jack up the pot, and if you get your hand than put them all in.

[CasinoJoe]

I agree with Metaphysician. Playing very loose preflop and tight on the flop seems to work for me. I will only play aggressive with a straight, flush, or full house and I usually will fold pairs and 2 pairs.

[JFarrell20]

I can't stand playing against bad players. They will mess up your game... put you into a slump like in baseball. Christmas night we got a game going at my parents house (me, my brother, dad, girlfriend, sister, brothers girlfriend, and sisters friend). Me and my girl are the only ones who consistently play holdem. Anyway, I was telling them all how good I am, and that they need to look out. lol. So early on (third hand) I'm dealt A J. I don't raise it b/c I know that is useless. So the flop comes K 10 x. I need a queen for a monster here. First person to act bets out, next person calls, next person raises, next person RERAISES!!! Now it's to me with A J and the nut straight draw and I can't even continue!!!! So I muck it. Later on I'm dealt 22 and it gets raised and re-raised to me. I CANT CALL NOW! I fold. Flop comes a 2!There was another hand later where there was like 4000 in the pot after the flop w/ three players in it! There was like 15000 total in play! 1/4 of all chips in play were in before 4th street!!!!!! lol. It was nuts, people were calling down two players with Jack high! CLUB HIGH! lol. It was ridiculous, I didn't win one hand. I pretty much folded everything and still finished 3rd. That AJ was my best starting hand all night.So naturally, my brother was razzing me b/c he finished 2nd and my dad finished 1st and they were all saying how i didn't win a pot, blah blah. I just told them "I didnt get cards", b/c I didn't want to rag on them or make them feel bad about there chaotic play. My gf felt the same way. lol. I don't think I would ever play bad players for real money. At least not anything more than silver.

[Smasharoo]

So naturally, my brother was razzing me b/c he finished 2nd and my dad finished 1st and they were all saying how i didn't win a pot, blah blah. I just told them "I didnt get cards", b/c I didn't want to rag on them or make them feel bad about there chaotic play. You're not very good at holdem.

[JFarrell20]

Smasharoo said:

So naturally, my brother was razzing me b/c he finished 2nd and my dad finished 1st and they were all saying how i didn't win a pot, blah blah. I just told them "I didnt get cards", b/c I didn't want to rag on them or make them feel bad about there chaotic play.  You're not very good at holdem.

What's your problem? Who are you? Have you ever tried playing against people who are just learning the game? They're UNBLUFFABLE! And when you only see about 3 paint cards in 20 hands, it's hard to play your A-game. Go censor yourself I didn't ask you.

[LeeDanger]

I love playing bad players. It's the easiest money out there. You just play the game straight up, bet it when you have it and fold it when you don't.

[JFarrell20]

Well most good players would rather play against other good players. example... daniel plays 4K-8K with Doyle, Gus, Phil, etc. Not bernice from N. Dakota, Teddy Johnson from Tennessee, and Micah Rosenthal from Albequerque. Like pro ball players... they'd rather hit a 92 mph fastball than a 72 mph fastball. They're used to it.

[jayboogie]

smasharoo might come across as a jerk, but there's a point to all his posts. Yes, he might seem like a know it all, but hey sometimes you need somebody to tell you like it is. His whole point is that you shouldn't be complaining about playing against these players, because they're the players that will pay you off. If you can't bluff them, then that makes the game even more simpler for you. You don't have to bluff them, you'll get them to call you when you get your cards. Instead of complaining about the players, you should just chart your tournament up as a bad run of cards, or perhaps even look at your play and how you maybe have misplayed hands. When you play against these players, I'm sure you folded the best hand at least a couple times. Besides, the way you describe your play, it sounds like you were playing weak and tight. You need to be the aggressor in games like these,. I love it when I play against weak and tight players that will get annoyed when you re-raise their monster hands with marginal hands. They think the player with the best hand pre-flop should win everytime. Of course, I just laugh it off and take their money. These are the easiest players to play, when they bet and raise, they have a good hand. Otherwise they g0t nothing. At least with a loose player, you can't really put them on any hand and are harder to read. But, the "nits" as Daniel calls them are the easiest to read.Also, I gotta say that right now it's just a phase you go through as a player. Trust me, after 1 of my sessions when I first started out, I hated playing against bad players. I even complained about it before, but the truth is these players pay your bills. Yes, getting sucked out sucks and gets frustrating when it happens, but you'd rather play against these guys than against better players who'll take your whole bankroll.

[PrtyPSux]

this isnt strategy i just found it very funny.. I was playing at a game w/ 3 of the loose calling stations ( the ones I mentioned before) it was $10 buy in and one $5 re-buy we started playing and about 30 min. into it 6 guys show up that I didnt know. well they bought in and asked me how to play they didnt even know what a pair was! so I explain the game and a few hands later one of them gets cowboys he checks it the whole way through and I bet the river with top pair 10.. he folds and shows..he was upset he got two kings in the same hand cuz it made his odds of pairing one of his kings much worse!!!!!(WTF!!!) ..other funny things happened like the bigblind folding his hand in unraised pot, or the guy who caught trip aces (two on board) stood and yelled YEEEES!!! and the rest of them would just say Sh*t when they got a bad hand and things like that.. it was a joke like out of a movie ,, I followed the advice posted and just played abc poker it was the easiest money ever. OH ,, and they all re-bought twice (we gave them a chance for one more re-buy ...u know, cuz they're new..lol.)

[jayboogie]

PrtyPSux said:

this isnt strategy i just found it very funny.. I was playing at a game w/ 3 of the loose calling stations ( the ones I mentioned before)  it was $10 buy in and one $5  re-buy we started playing and about 30 min. into it 6 guys show up that I didnt know. well they bought in and asked me how to play they didnt even know what a pair was!  so I explain the game and a few  hands later one of them gets cowboys he checks it the whole way through and I bet the river with top pair 10.. he folds and shows..he was upset he got two kings in the same hand cuz it made his odds of pairing one of his kings much worse!!!!!(WTF!!!) ..other funny things happened like the bigblind folding his hand in unraised pot, or the guy who caught trip aces (two on board) stood and yelled YEEEES!!! and the rest of them would just say Sh*t when they got a bad hand and things like that.. it was a joke like out of a movie ,, I followed the advice posted and just played abc poker it was the easiest money ever.    OH ,, and they all re-bought twice (we gave them a chance for one more re-buy ...u know, cuz they're new..lol.)

you must not have explained it very well if he couldnt understand what a pair was haha. oh well, it worked to your advantage, but it was funny nonetheless. it sounds like you guys more or less robbed them blind hahahaha. As long as they had a good time, they'll keep coming back, so I hope you made it entertaining for them.

[FARGOpokerND]

I can't stand playing against bad players. They will mess up your game... put you into a slump like in baseball. Christmas night we got a game going at my parents house (me, my brother, dad, girlfriend, sister, brothers girlfriend, and sisters friend). Me and my girl are the only ones who consistently play holdem. Anyway, I was telling them all how good I am, and that they need to look out. lol. So early on (third hand) I'm dealt A J. I don't raise it b/c I know that is useless. So the flop comes K 10 x. I need a queen for a monster here. First person to act bets out, next person calls, next person raises, next person RERAISES!!! Now it's to me with A J and the nut straight draw and I can't even continue!!!! So I muck it. Later on I'm dealt 22 and it gets raised and re-raised to me. I CANT CALL NOW! I fold. Flop comes a 2!
There was another hand later where there was like 4000 in the pot after the flop w/ three players in it! There was like 15000 total in play! 1/4 of all chips in play were in before 4th street!!!!!! lol.
It was nuts, people were calling down two players with Jack high! CLUB HIGH! lol. It was ridiculous, I didn't win one hand. I pretty much folded everything and still finished 3rd. That AJ was my best starting hand all night.
So naturally, my brother was razzing me b/c he finished 2nd and my dad finished 1st and they were all saying how i didn't win a pot, blah blah. I just told them "I didnt get cards", b/c I didn't want to rag on them or make them feel bad about there chaotic play. My gf felt the same way. lol. I don't think I would ever play bad players for real money. At least not anything more than silver.

i <3 JFarrell

random bump? sorry...just digging around old threads and this post made me chuckle

EDIT: probably wouldn't have bumped it if I realized it was in gen strat and not gen poker

[TeeSludge]

i <3 JFarrell

random bump? sorry...just digging around old threads and this post made me chuckle

EDIT: probably wouldn't have bumped it if I realized it was in gen strat and not gen poker

I'm a fan and appreciate the bumpage

[whatgreatis]

What's your problem? Who are you? Have you ever tried playing against people who are just learning the game? They're UNBLUFFABLE! And when you only see about 3 paint cards in 20 hands, it's hard to play your A-game. Go censor yourself I didn't ask you.

lollllllll.