Tough Laydown...

[gregdon8 0]

Super to $1,000,000 on stars. three handed, top two get the $215 seats. For th most part I have had control of the final table, but psycho just won two rather large pots to chip up, basically even with me.Three handed this is a monster, but something about it just didnt feel right....prob that he only min raised. Even so, in a cash tourney I am re-raising to see where I stand, but here I decided to flat callQuestion 1. Is calling correct here and why?Question 2. Is laydown on flop correct here? How about in cash tourney?Question 3. How would you play the flop?I will post the result of the hand shortlyPokerStars Game #4818040067: Tournament #24041516, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit -Match Round II, Level IV (50/100) - 2006/05/03 - 00:55:58 (ET)Table '24041516 1' 8-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 2: Hero (4555 in chips) Seat 4: Dr_Hangtime (2892 in chips) Seat 5: PsYcHo AzN (4553 in chips) Hero: posts small blind 50Dr_Hangtime: posts big blind 100*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Hero [Qs Qh]PsYcHo AzN: raises 100 to 200Hero: calls 150Dr_Hangtime: calls 100*** FLOP *** [5h 2d Jc]Hero: checks Dr_Hangtime: checks PsYcHo AzN: bets 300Hero: raises 300 to 600Dr_Hangtime: folds PsYcHo AzN: raises 3753 to 4353 and is all-inHero: folds PsYcHo AzN collected 1800 from pot

[....Ian.... 0]

the min raise: what had been the normal opening when it got shorthanded? had you seen him min raise b4?seeing as you played it the way you did, i cant fault the laydownraising PF is a must to define your hand

[BeaverStyle 1]

Super to $1,000,000 on stars. three handed, top two get the $215 seats. For th most part I have had control of the final table, but psycho just won two rather large pots to chip up, basically even with me.Three handed this is a monster, but something about it just didnt feel right....prob that he only min raised. Even so, in a cash tourney I am re-raising to see where I stand, but here I decided to flat callQuestion 1. Is calling correct here and why?Question 2. Is laydown on flop correct here? How about in cash tourney?Question 3. How would you play the flop?I will post the result of the hand shortlyPokerStars Game #4818040067: Tournament #24041516, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit -Match Round II, Level IV (50/100) - 2006/05/03 - 00:55:58 (ET)Table '24041516 1' 8-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 2: Hero (4555 in chips) Seat 4: Dr_Hangtime (2892 in chips) Seat 5: PsYcHo AzN (4553 in chips) Hero: posts small blind 50Dr_Hangtime: posts big blind 100*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Hero [Qs Qh]PsYcHo AzN: raises 100 to 200Hero: calls 150Dr_Hangtime: calls 100*** FLOP *** [5h 2d Jc]Hero: checks Dr_Hangtime: checks PsYcHo AzN: bets 300Hero: raises 300 to 600Dr_Hangtime: folds PsYcHo AzN: raises 3753 to 4353 and is all-inHero: folds PsYcHo AzN collected 1800 from pot

There are a couple of problems that i can see:1. Gotta reraise preflop. A call from you gives him a range (for you) that is pretty vague, and you let the other guy into the hand as well to potentially outflop you.2. Your check raise. His all in after your check-raise is a misleading bet, because you didn't reraise preflop. He could have AJ -QJ thinking you're trying to pick up the pot. I don't hate the laydown, but if you played the hand differently preflop you might not have had to lay down the overpair, especially so close to the satellite ticket.(btw, i've bubbled that tourney before.... worst feeling ever.)

[gregdon8 0]

dont want to give out the results of the hand yet, but I will reveal my thinking as this may help in the analysis....1. A couple of time maybe throughout the entire table did pshycho min raise preflop and both times did not lead to showdowns, but they were played in a way postflop that appeared to be quite strong2. This is a satellite tourney...there is no real reason for me to play a big flop especially against the guy who can severely damage my chances of getting the seat. I called so that I did not have to committ that many chips to the pot preflop3. I decided to check raise as opposed to leading out because I wanted to show strength, but again, without comitting that many chips to the flop. If i lead out into the pot of 900 or so and he reraises me, it is for most of my chips and I stll do not know much about his hand. If I check, let him bet then come over the top with the check raise (IMO showing strength beyone top pair, since top pair of jacks is too vulnerable to check) and he comes over the top of me then I can be pretty sure he can beat my overpair of queens4. I layed it down for those reasons and ended up only losing $450

[zipper 0]

dont want to give out the results of the hand yet, but I will reveal my thinking as this may help in the analysis....1. A couple of time maybe throughout the entire table did pshycho min raise preflop and both times did not lead to showdowns, but they were played in a way postflop that appeared to be quite strong2. This is a satellite tourney...there is no real reason for me to play a big flop especially against the guy who can severely damage my chances of getting the seat. I called so that I did not have to committ that many chips to the pot preflop3. I decided to check raise as opposed to leading out because I wanted to show strength, but again, without comitting that many chips to the flop. If i lead out into the pot of 900 or so and he reraises me, it is for most of my chips and I stll do not know much about his hand. If I check, let him bet then come over the top with the check raise (IMO showing strength beyone top pair, since top pair of jacks is too vulnerable to check) and he comes over the top of me then I can be pretty sure he can beat my overpair of queens4. I layed it down for those reasons and ended up only losing $450

You lost $750. $150 pre flop (on top of your SB) and $600 that you raised it to after the flop.If you reraise pre flop to $600 and he goes all-in pre flop you fold and save $150. If he folds pre flop you win the hand. If he just calls, then you need to worry about a set on the flop, but you have a lot more info (as does he) once the betting starts on the flop.

[blakheart 3]

As you played it, I think you have to lay it down.And in a cash tournament, I might call. In this type of tournament, I would be taking a different line. You want to avoid big pots and just pick up little pots and survive. Let someone else make a big mistake. With Q's, I want to pick up this pot. I would raise preflop to try to close the action, and I would have lead out on the flop. That gives your opponents 2 chances to fold. The way you played it, you only gave him one chance to fold with your check raise. I would not want to be all in without the nuts in this kind of tournament, with this many chips left.

[gregdon8 0]

thanks for the replies guys. Basically I would rather play a small pot here. yes I defintely could have reraised preflop, but i like to see flops with these kinda hands. Like was said I am not puting a lot of chips in the pot without the nuts...especially against him at this point.I folded obviously and he flipped over KK, so it turned out to be the right laydown regardless. I think it was this hand and also the hand discussed prev with AQ when 4 handed that allowed me to win...

[throwemaway 0]

What do you think would have happened if you re raised him preflop, say to 700? Do you think he would have jammed right then, or just flat called?

[Rocketwadster 0]

Although I definately wouldn't have played queens like you did pre-flop (I might with kings though), it is hard to fault the play, as you ended up spending approximately the same amount of chips that a normal pre-flop raise would have given you AND you got to see the flop. Would have been hard to lay down the overpair to that board, but it is probably the best move right there if you are confident that you are better than your opponents and will be able to utilize your skills when in a better situation.Nice hand.

[gregdon8 0]

again, thanks for the replies. To answer one of your questions....Do I think he would flat call or raise if I were to reraise?Honestly, I do not know but I would assume reraise all in. We both were very dangerous to one another and the money already in the pot would have been plenty to make him happy at this point in the tourney, after all satellites are really about survival and with the third player hoovering around 1900, he would be golden.Also, as to why I just called....The range of hands I had him on (all strong by the way) included AK. By only calling then playing the pot the way I did (checkraise), I thought I would clearly define his hand. I figured if he had AK he would not come over the top of me for all his chips, after I showed strength with the checkraise.So that left only three hands in my opinion (after the move) QQ (most likely not), KK (very possible), and AA (very possible). I ruled out JJ for two reasons. One, I dont think he would only min raise preflop. Two, after he hits the flop he most likely would not reraise so much as to go all in.So I was fairly certain I was beat and really gained nothing by calling to find out