78 replies to this topic

[DanielNegreanu]

You are playing in a $10,000 buy in WPT event and are in the this first limit about 30 minutes into the event. Your stack is at 10,225 when you look down at QQ from middle position and no one has entered the pot in front of you. The blinds are 25-50 so you decided to raise it and make it 150 to go. Everyone folds to the player on the button who re-raises it to 750 and both blinds fold back to you. You have never seen this player before and have no idea what he has or what he is capable of. You assume he plays pretty straight forward as you haven't seen anything strange thus far from him. He has 10,000 in chips so you have him barely covered.

[JaysonWeber]

Well, I'm scared here... 2 hands that can beat me. I guess I would fold here in a lot of instances, depends what the guy LOOKS like. If he's a younger kid or seems to be loose, i'm calling, if he seems to be the tight, quite type I'll fold, no point in risking it.I voted for fold, You have 1/10th of your stack out there in the first limit on what you c0nsider a possible coinflip. There are times where I would call this, for the same reason I stated I'd fold. It IS the first round, and theres time to build your stack back up... really depends on what the player looks like to be honest lol.

[JimmyWellington]

OK, let's look at each option. To me, go all in makes no sense. He's only going to call if you're beat. Although he MIGHT lay down KK if he thinks your re-raise means AA. The general rule when it comes to raises is that a huge raise usually looks like you don't want a call. The risk/reward ratio is too high. The levels are 2 hours and you have plenty of time to build up chips, there's no reason to go crazy on a hand that (without knowing anything about the player) is most likely a coinflip (AK), or crushing you (AA,KK).Call -To me, this is an option. It's going to depend on how confident you are on your post flop play. Based on the previous betting, he's representing a good hand. You gotta figure out if he's got a big pair, or AK. I'm just going on standard play here, since you don't know anything about him. Also, depending on your image at this point, just calling him might scare him. You raised it up fr0m middle position, and when he raised, you just called him. If I didn't know that a player was weak, and I was in a 10k tourny, I'm going to be wary of a raise - re-raise - call. Fold - This was my first option. It might look like playing scared, but at this point, we haven't really seen too much. There's plenty of time to build up chips, and this is looking like a confrontation that you might very well have the worst of. Also, by folding here, you are setting him up for a repop later. If he's making a move on you and you lay down what is probably a good hand, then you know he'll try it again. Maybe at that time you've seen him do it a couple times before and come over the top of him. So I vote fold, with call as second option if you're really confident in post flop play.

[KramitDaToad]

I think you have to call here. You are obviously worried about AA or KK but it is equally (actually more) likely you are up against AK where you can be a 57% favorite. On your good days it may even be AQ, JJ or even worse and things are rosy.True you will be out of position, but pairs are not as constricted as other cards because post flop they are not drawing hands.The implied odds for hitting the set are good as you are both deep, and you can assume to have his hand defined to a small range of possibilitiesI you are prepared to let it go to an A or K on the flop it's not going to cost you any more that the 600 to call. Worst case scenario is a low flop with no A, K or Q which will leave you with some work still to do, however in this case you are ahead 16/28 times if all he re-raises with are AA, KK & AK.I think the final deciding factor is you are showing the table early that you are not easily pushed off your raises - it might even be worth the 600 to take the flop and check/fold to any non Q flop to 'buy' this reputation.I don't see going all-in as an option and thus folding is second to calling for the above reasons.Edit: Daniel has just added the reraise option. I think this is out as 600 will let us see the flop and define the hand so much more. (ie A or K bye-bye!)

[Wlleiotl]

Call or reraise, folding to an all in. My main worry is if i reraise, will he just call? that way im playing for a very big pot and with no idea of where i'm at. I'd probably just call, bet out the pot and see what he does. if he's got the balls to reraise with AK, JJ or TT then he can have the pot, but I think I'm looking at AA or KK far more often if he raises. Folding to a single raise is obviously terrible, unless I have some reputation for only raising preflop with monsters and moving all in is terrible because you shut out any action with any hand you're ahead of and only get called when you're behind.So I think reraising isn't horrible, but if he calls then I'm in a tricky spot. So I call, bet out 1200 or so on any non Q flop, folding to a raise and on a Q flop ill either check to him or make a weak lead. I'll bet A high flops hoping he can fold KK-TT and i dont have to show, but if he calls I'm check folding. As an overpair I'll bet out, hoping he folds overcards, then if I'm raised I can easily pass, if I'm called I'll check to him and he'll probably want to check it down with most hands. If he does bet the turn I probably pass, if he checks and then bets the river when i check, I'll probably call most bets, depending on the board.There's no need to be getting into massive pots with QQ this early, then again you can't fold it, what are you going to play if you do?Thanks Daniel for a good one. After the last one you've pulled out a thinker with different answers that can be right, it's just about getting that magical best answer among them.

[wheezer16]

Fold. He may be behind you or with AK may be offering a coin toss, but not worth the risk at this point.Calling with the hope of a queen on the flop ain't worth it. It's still early...save your chips for another hand.

[troutsmart]

I flat call. I have position for when the flop comes down. I might be facing several hands that I dominate, such as JJ, TT, AQ, KQ, etc. I don't like reraising preflop, because for the same $1750, I can bet on the flop a pot sized bet and gain more information. Thus I play it like this.I call preflop. There is approxiamately 1500 in the pot.On the flop, I'll make a few different moves.If he bets the pot...I'm willing to risk a large portion of my stack here. I'll make it 4000 to go when he bets 1750. I'll consider a fold to an all-in here.If he bets smaller... say 1000... I'll most likely make it 2200 - 2500 to go and look for his reaction. If he checks the flop... I'll bet between 1250 and 1750, and look for his reaction.If I feel I'm beat after the flop...I'll slow downMy point is this... I likely have the player beat preflop...it is possible that they have KK or AA, but unless I get an amazing read, I'm not folding here, though it might make sense, being that a small portion of my stack is committed. I would prefer to play this hand post flop, where I can get a stronger read.I'm also a player who likes to accumulate chips early or exit early. This is an ideal situation to do either, though I'd say I come out ahead in the majority here.

[bigedjr17]

troutsmart said:

I flat call.  I have position for when the flop comes down.  I might be facing several hands that I dominate, such as JJ, TT, AQ, KQ, etc.  I don't like reraising preflop, because for the same $1750, I can bet on the flop a pot sized bet and gain more information.    Thus I play it like this.I call preflop.  There is approxiamately 1500 in the pot.On the flop, I'll make a few different moves.If he bets the pot...I'm willing to risk a large portion of my stack here.  I'll make it 4000 to go when he bets 1750.   I'll consider a fold to an all-in here.If he bets smaller... say 1000... I'll most likely make it 2200 - 2500 to go and look for his reaction.  My point is this... I likely have the player beat preflop...it is possible that they have KK or AA, but unless I get an amazing read, I'm not folding here, though it might make sense, being that a small portion of my stack is committed.   I would prefere to play this hand post flop on the flop, where I can get a stronger read.I'm also a player who likes to accumulate chips early or exit early.  This is an ideal situation to do either, though I'd say I come out ahead in the majority here.

Well said.. that's what I would do..

[Wlleiotl]

I wouldn't, because if I was waiting to see what he did on the flop I'd bee waiting a long time, you're acting first on the flop

[rog]

All-in is out of the question. Too many unknowns, and WAY to early to put them all in preflop on any hand really. Fold is out too. The bet is not big enough to make me fold a premium hand, so we're down to call vs raise to 1/4 of my stack.If I re-raise, I expect all-in or fold from my opponent. All in if I'm beat, and fold if I'm ahead. Not much of a deal there. I like the flat call. Reason is, even though I have a premium hand, I'm beat by AA, KK. I'm a coin flip to AK, and it's too early to flip coins. I think I benefit from seeing a flop. Ill re-raise if the flop comes under-cards, fold to a large raise with any overcards, and of course if I hit a Q with no overs, I'm looking to get them all in. Call.Rog

[troutsmart]

I wouldn't, because if I was waiting to see what he did on the flop I'd bee waiting a long time, you're acting first on the flopWow... boy did I misread the original situation. I was thinking the player was in the BB, giving me position. This changes my approach a bit. I still don't like a reraise, and would likely call. He's showing aggression and will bet the flop under most circumstances. Therefore, my read after the flop will be crucial. If the board is low... I will likely check-raise. If an A or K hits, I have no problem walking away from the hand, though I might bet out 1250-1750 with just the K hitting. Bottom line: it bites to be out of position. However, with a good read on the flop, I could pick up a lot of chips in this situation.

[Red_foot_soldier]

before I look at anyone elses posts I fancy giving this a stab. Obviously he has something but given my/your aggressive nature he could be testing you with Ax, small pair, only really 2 hands that worry you AA and KK, so take the flop if you avoid the A or K to make any of the mediocre hands test him again if appears strong you can get off it then.Then again by that reasoning could push preflop with only 2/3 of maybe 20 ish hands he could have you beat. a too risky early they're will be better spots to get the cash in laterCALL

[Big-Ern777]

I'd say this one is pretty simple. Lay the hand down and move on to fight with more bullets rather than taking a highly unnecessary risk here. Give him credit for the steal, cowboys, rockets or what have you as a battle here is highly risky and not matching the reward.If you call:No real flop is making you comfortable unless you catch the set, which of course is highly unlikely. If an A or K lands now you're in trouble, most likely beat and must wait to see what your opponent does as betting would most likely be incorrect. Even if the flop comes 2 7 10, rainbow, this isn't a great situation for you as KK or AA would still have you dominated. The logic to this hand is that nobody limped or raised before you (which could mean Aces are still in the deck or someone's hand) and considering his reraise, whether it be pocket 5s or pocket As, you're still correct in folding as most likely you won't catch the flop and already you'd be highly concerned as to what your opponent may do, as any bet would probably scare you away regardless of the board. The key part to the quiz is that you don't know this player well, therefore you don't know if a bet at the flop means a monster or a simple push and risking chips to acquire this information (when you could simply watch him on later hands) doesn't seem very profitable, long-run or short-run.Reraise 2500:Definitely the worst decision in my opinion. Most likely he's going to call even if he attempted to scare you out with a low pocket pair. Basically, why risk a quarter of your stack to test and see if this unknown player has KK or AA and get trapped in a crippling situation when you can healthily lay the hand down. All-in: Gee, that's a great play. Let's find out whether or not he has us dominated and risk nearly our entire stack and tournament life! Basically, if you don't have a read on your opponent you shouldn't be using almost your entire stack to do so.

[KramitDaToad]

Big-Ern777 said:

The logic to this hand is that nobody limped or raised before you (which could mean Aces are still in the deck or someone's hand) ...

Sorry there is no logic there. Player's actions have absolutely no bearing on the distribution of the cards remaining in the deck.

[Big_J234]

Ok so I'm not as educated as most others, but heres my stab. I would re-raise only reason is that when I just call I usually just fold if I miss the flop. Also folding Q's is pretty hard for a bad player like myself. In this senario it's heads up, early, and the raise is just as scary to him as it was to you (from his re-raise that is). So put the stress on him to figure it out. Why lose 1/4th of your stack on the chance I might hit trips with a Queen high on the board. If he has Aces or Kings so be it. I'm throwing initial pot odds out the window I know. But surviving this hand may set up the whole day for you, even if you lose the pot. People will be willing to play with you cause' your "crazy". I'm pretty sure folding is correct here but oh well. I'm going out with guns blazin.

[ejay]

I would re-rasie because i believe that it would be the best way to find out where i stand. A call does not tell me much because if a flop was to come down something like 9 high and the player made a huge bet he could still have pocket jacks or tens and i would not know. A raise leaves me with about 7500 hundred which is enough to make a comeback if i had to fold. Going all0in would be risky because you could easily be beaten

[holman3rd]

DanielNegreanu said:

You are playing in a $10,000 buy in WPT event and are in the this first limit about 30 minutes into the event.  Your stack is at 10,225 when you look down at QQ from middle position and no one has entered the pot in front of you.  The blinds are 25-50 so you decided to raise it and make it 150 to go.  Everyone folds to the player on the button who re-raises it to 750 and both blinds fold back to you.  You have never seen this player before and have no idea what he has or what he is capable of.  You assume he plays pretty straight forward as you haven't seen anything strange thus far from him.  He has 10,000 in chips so you have him barely covered.

The pot only has $225 in it and the button re-raises big to $750. That size raise here (absent a read, which we don't have), smells like AK to me, and the button wants to isolate me by getting the blinds to fold. I don't expect to see AA or KK, as I can't see why the button would want to isolate me with those monsters. Yes, I would expect a re-raise, but not this big since there is only one person in the pot (me) and the 2 blinds yet to act. Going with a read of AK, I flat call. I'm out of position on the flop, so absent any Aces or Kings on the flop, I'm in good shape and try to take it down there, probably by betting into him. If he comes over the top of me, I fold, fearing my read was wrong and he was playing AA or KK. I think it's too early for him to have a read on me and try this move (playing back at me), with less that those two hands. Any A or K on the flop, I check and fold to any bet.Second choice would be to push, but since I don't have a read on this player, I'm not sure if he is capable of playing AA or KK this way. Therefore, I don't push, since I'd likely only get called by those two hands.I don't consider folding a choice.By the way, let me add that the button could be making this move with a lot less than AK. My open-raise came from middle position, which would indicate a wider starting range than, say, if I were UTG.

[holman3rd]

troutsmart said:

I flat call.  I have position for when the flop comes down.  I might be facing several hands that I dominate, such as JJ, TT, AQ, KQ, etc.  I don't like reraising preflop, because for the same $1750, I can bet on the flop a pot sized bet and gain more information.    Thus I play it like this.I call preflop.  There is approxiamately 1500 in the pot.On the flop, I'll make a few different moves.If he bets the pot...I'm willing to risk a large portion of my stack here.  I'll make it 4000 to go when he bets 1750.   I'll consider a fold to an all-in here.If he bets smaller... say 1000... I'll most likely make it 2200 - 2500 to go and look for his reaction.  If he checks the flop... I'll bet between 1250 and 1750, and look for his reaction.If I feel I'm beat after the flop...I'll slow downMy point is this... I likely have the player beat preflop...it is possible that they have KK or AA, but unless I get an amazing read, I'm not folding here, though it might make sense, being that a small portion of my stack is committed.   I would prefer to play this hand post flop, where I can get a stronger read.I'm also a player who likes to accumulate chips early or exit early.  This is an ideal situation to do either, though I'd say I come out ahead in the majority here.

Our posts are very similar, although we don't have position. The re-raiser is on the button.

[ddudley]

This is a pretty straight forward call. You don't wabt to fold and you sure as hell dn't want to give him another chance to go all-in (which you can't call). If the flop has an ace or king and he's betting then we can fold. If not, we probably have the best hand.

[wrto4556]

KramitDaToad said:

I think you have to call here.  You are obviously worried about AA or KK but it is equally (actually more) likely you are up against AK where you can be a 57% favorite.  On your good days it may even be AQ, JJ or even worse and things are rosy.True you will be out of position, but pairs are not as constricted as other cards because post flop they are not drawing hands.The implied odds for hitting the set are good as you are both deep, and you can assume to have his hand defined to a small range of possibilitiesI you are prepared to let it go to an A or K on the flop it's not going to cost you any more that the 600 to call.  Worst case scenario is a low flop with no A, K or Q which will leave you with some work still to do, however in this case you are ahead 16/28 times if all he re-raises with are AA, KK & AK.I think the final deciding factor is you are showing the table early that you are not easily pushed off your raises - it might even be worth the 600 to take the flop and check/fold to any non Q flop to 'buy' this reputation.I don't see going all-in as an option and thus folding is second to calling for the above reasons.Edit:  Daniel has just added the reraise option.  I think this is out as 600 will let us see the flop and define the hand so much more. (ie A or K bye-bye!)

I couldn't aggree more. In this situation I would call with AK, too...Even if I had to fold UI on the flop.