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#1 Petoria

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 10:12 PM

This hand was posted by Roothlus, the 30th ranked tournament player on pocketfives.com. Here is a hand he posted on the forums there that was played against our very own PrtyPsux:" Okay, here's the situation. Second level of the 7PM 300 and this hand happens against PrtyPSux. I know he's a great player and he knows me as well. So with that being said I'm 100% sure he wouldn't do this with AK or QQ. Basically, here's a situation where it's either the other KK or 6 combinations of AA. So clearly with that range, KK is foldable. PokerStars Game #4752904942: Tournament #23515307, $300+$20 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2006/04/26 - 19:27:21 (ET)Table '23515307 15' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: leemur1 (2965 in chips)Seat 2: shmuly (1305 in chips)Seat 3: FSUpete (1260 in chips)Seat 4: PrtyPsux (2585 in chips)Seat 5: theman3232 (4150 in chips)Seat 6: ACE2GRIND (1280 in chips)Seat 7: mister MH (3835 in chips)Seat 8: GB2005 (2235 in chips)Seat 9: Roothlus (2615 in chips)mister MH: posts small blind 15GB2005: posts big blind 30*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Roothlus [Kd Kh]Roothlus: raises 60 to 90leemur1: calls 90shmuly: foldstheman3232 said, "what does overlay mean?"FSUpete: foldsPrtyPsux said, "he GB...theres some articles on card player that might help"PrtyPsux: raises 160 to 250theman3232: foldsACE2GRIND: foldsmister MH: foldsGB2005: foldsPrtyPsux said, "michael something"Roothlus: raises 350 to 600After this raise, he thinks and then hits timebank and now I just think he's trying to lure me in. Turns out he was just thinking if I actually had AA but at this point when he shoved I had already decided I was folding.leemur1: foldsGB2005 said, "yea i read it"PrtyPsux said, "weisenberg"GB2005 said, "thanks"PrtyPsux: raises 1985 to 2585 and is all-inRoothlus: foldsRoothlus said, "nh kk"PrtyPsux collected 1335 from potPrtyPsux: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 1335 | Rake 0Seat 1: leemur1 folded before FlopSeat 2: shmuly folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: FSUpete folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: PrtyPsux collected (1335)Seat 5: theman3232 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: ACE2GRIND (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: mister MH (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 8: GB2005 (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 9: Roothlus folded before FlopI was wrong here but in this situation, it's got to be a correct fold with his given range. Basically, I just wanted to show someone a specific situationg when it's correct to fold KK."
The path
of the righteous man is beset on
all sides by the inequities of the
selfish and the tyranny of evil
men. Blessed is he who, in the
name of charity and good will,
shepherds the weak through the
valley of darkness, for he is truly
his brother's keeper and the finder
of lost children.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those
who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.
And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.

#2 Butcho22

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 10:19 PM

i think posting a hand where the villian actually showed AA would be good example of when to fold KK. this example just sucks
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#3 Steamed Rice

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 10:24 PM

View PostButcho22, on Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 2:19 AM, said:

i think posting a hand where the villian actually showed AA would be good example of when to fold KK. this example just sucks
i agreeif he was just some random guy he would get flamed for throwing away KK preflopstars = rigged

#4 Petoria

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 10:27 PM

View PostButcho22, on Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 1:19 AM, said:

i think posting a hand where the villian actually showed AA would be good example of when to fold KK. this example just sucks
Dude, you dont even have a clue. This was a hand of Roothlus', that PrtyPsux got him to lay down.Roothlus is one of the best online players out there. I thought I'd just throw some props Prty's way.
The path
of the righteous man is beset on
all sides by the inequities of the
selfish and the tyranny of evil
men. Blessed is he who, in the
name of charity and good will,
shepherds the weak through the
valley of darkness, for he is truly
his brother's keeper and the finder
of lost children.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those
who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.
And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.

#5 Wandigo

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 10:28 PM

Despite watching him bust out and bubble in two tourney's earlier today, he's certainly a good player. Definately have seen even better plays by him than this though, although Rooth must have mad respect for him laying down his kings. (or he's just that good)

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#6 Petoria

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 10:30 PM

View PostWandigo, on Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 1:28 AM, said:

Despite watching him bust out and bubble in two tourney's earlier today, he's certainly a good player. Definately have seen even better plays by him than this though.
Obviously he didnt think he was making a play. That's a prett tight image. Should Prty by worried, idk.
The path
of the righteous man is beset on
all sides by the inequities of the
selfish and the tyranny of evil
men. Blessed is he who, in the
name of charity and good will,
shepherds the weak through the
valley of darkness, for he is truly
his brother's keeper and the finder
of lost children.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those
who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.
And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.

#7 Butcho22

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 10:32 PM

View PostPetoria, on Wednesday, April 26th, 2006, 11:27 PM, said:

Dude, you dont even have a clue. This was a hand of Roothlus', that PrtyPsux got him to lay down.Roothlus is one of the best online players out there. I thought I'd just throw some props Prty's way.
PrtyPrsux is obv a very talented player....but this example is clearly not the best way to show it. Seriously...wow...he pushed KK.....and?
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Don't believe me? That's his wife on the right
That's her twin sister on the left
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#8 Petoria

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 10:35 PM

View PostButcho22, on Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 1:32 AM, said:

PrtyPrsux is obv a very talented player....but this example is clearly not the best way to show it. Seriously...wow...he pushed KK.....and?
I just thought it was an interesting hand. Since they're both such awesome players.
The path
of the righteous man is beset on
all sides by the inequities of the
selfish and the tyranny of evil
men. Blessed is he who, in the
name of charity and good will,
shepherds the weak through the
valley of darkness, for he is truly
his brother's keeper and the finder
of lost children.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those
who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.
And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.

#9 Butcho22

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 10:38 PM

View PostPetoria, on Wednesday, April 26th, 2006, 11:35 PM, said:

I just thought it was an interesting hand. Since they're both such awesome players.
Well that's fine...but you were saying it's a good example of when to fold KK. Roothlus obv feels he can find a better spot, but if he jams here, in no way is here incorrect.
Tiger Woods is a pimp
Don't believe me? That's his wife on the right
That's her twin sister on the left
You figure it out

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#10 Petoria

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 10:44 PM

View PostButcho22, on Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 1:38 AM, said:

Well that's fine...but you were saying it's a good example of when to fold KK. Roothlus obv feels he can find a better spot, but if he jams here, in no way is here incorrect.
I NEVER said that this was a good example of when to fold KK.Look at my quotes, that's what Roothlus said.
The path
of the righteous man is beset on
all sides by the inequities of the
selfish and the tyranny of evil
men. Blessed is he who, in the
name of charity and good will,
shepherds the weak through the
valley of darkness, for he is truly
his brother's keeper and the finder
of lost children.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those
who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.
And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.

#11 Butcho22

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 10:48 PM

View PostPetoria, on Wednesday, April 26th, 2006, 11:44 PM, said:

I NEVER said that this was a good example of when to fold KK.Look at my quotes, that's what Roothlus said.
Okay...but you didn't do a good job of making it clear what was written by whoEDIT: I just now have seen those tiny ity bitty quotes you have there

View PostWandigo, on Wednesday, April 26th, 2006, 11:28 PM, said:

Despite watching him bust out and bubble in two tourney's earlier today, he's certainly a good player. Definately have seen even better plays by him than this though, although Rooth must have mad respect for him laying down his kings. (or he's just that drunk)
fyp
Tiger Woods is a pimp
Don't believe me? That's his wife on the right
That's her twin sister on the left
You figure it out

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#12 Petoria

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 10:50 PM

View PostButcho22, on Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 1:48 AM, said:

Okay...but you didn't do a good job of making it clear what was written by who
Yeah, it's tough knowing what punctuation marks are.
The path
of the righteous man is beset on
all sides by the inequities of the
selfish and the tyranny of evil
men. Blessed is he who, in the
name of charity and good will,
shepherds the weak through the
valley of darkness, for he is truly
his brother's keeper and the finder
of lost children.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those
who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.
And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.

#13 bombsaway

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 11:45 PM

View PostPetoria, on Wednesday, April 26th, 2006, 10:12 PM, said:

This hand was posted by Roothlus, the 30th ranked tournament player on pocketfives.com. Here is a hand he posted on the forums there that was played against our very own PrtyPsux:" Okay, here's the situation. Second level of the 7PM 300 and this hand happens against PrtyPSux. I know he's a great player and he knows me as well. So with that being said I'm 100% sure he wouldn't do this with AK or QQ. Basically, here's a situation where it's either the other KK or 6 combinations of AA. So clearly with that range, KK is foldable. PokerStars Game #4752904942: Tournament #23515307, $300+$20 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2006/04/26 - 19:27:21 (ET)Table '23515307 15' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: leemur1 (2965 in chips)Seat 2: shmuly (1305 in chips)Seat 3: FSUpete (1260 in chips)Seat 4: PrtyPsux (2585 in chips)Seat 5: theman3232 (4150 in chips)Seat 6: ACE2GRIND (1280 in chips)Seat 7: mister MH (3835 in chips)Seat 8: GB2005 (2235 in chips)Seat 9: Roothlus (2615 in chips)mister MH: posts small blind 15GB2005: posts big blind 30*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Roothlus [Kd Kh]Roothlus: raises 60 to 90leemur1: calls 90shmuly: foldstheman3232 said, "what does overlay mean?"FSUpete: foldsPrtyPsux said, "he GB...theres some articles on card player that might help"PrtyPsux: raises 160 to 250theman3232: foldsACE2GRIND: foldsmister MH: foldsGB2005: foldsPrtyPsux said, "michael something"Roothlus: raises 350 to 600After this raise, he thinks and then hits timebank and now I just think he's trying to lure me in. Turns out he was just thinking if I actually had AA but at this point when he shoved I had already decided I was folding.leemur1: foldsGB2005 said, "yea i read it"PrtyPsux said, "weisenberg"GB2005 said, "thanks"PrtyPsux: raises 1985 to 2585 and is all-inRoothlus: foldsRoothlus said, "nh kk"PrtyPsux collected 1335 from potPrtyPsux: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 1335 | Rake 0Seat 1: leemur1 folded before FlopSeat 2: shmuly folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: FSUpete folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: PrtyPsux collected (1335)Seat 5: theman3232 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: ACE2GRIND (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: mister MH (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 8: GB2005 (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 9: Roothlus folded before FlopI was wrong here but in this situation, it's got to be a correct fold with his given range. Basically, I just wanted to show someone a specific situationg when it's correct to fold KK."
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#14 PrtyPSux

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 11:51 PM

I think it is a good example of when to fold KK, and its not that I GOT him to laydown the hand. I guess it just goes to show how important position is, I got the last bet in and he knew he wasnt ahead. If Im up against him in particular I probably end up folding too if I was UTG...if im up against someone else I know is good but havent really played with I will probably call.. meh not sure I think he could have played it differently, by differently i dont mean "better" I mean he could have played it so that he didnt have to make a tough choice. Cant put my finger on what the exact play should be but there's definately different ways to play his hand.

View PostWandigo, on Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 5:28 AM, said:

Despite watching him bust out and bubble in two tourney's earlier today, he's certainly a good player. Definately have seen even better plays by him than this though, although Rooth must have mad respect for him laying down his kings. (or he's just that good)
ugh u didnt see that did YOU???lol the $300 tourney, w/e I was busting no matter what. But how bout my blow up in the $ 150 :club:

#15 RDog

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 04:23 AM

I know Roothlus is a great player but why would he assume Prty had Aces here? Maybe I play my Aces different but I wouldn't want to chase him away and would have just called the re-raise with Aces. Why wouldn't I want to see a flop as a 4 to 1 favorite? Is it possible he has aces there? Yes. But the range of hands he put you on.....I just don't get it. In situations like this, I always like to think, "What would Dan Harrington do?". And to quote him, except for certain satellite situations, "Never lay down Kings". Am I alone that I don't see his point that he should have folded Kings?

#16 MisterB

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 04:29 AM

Its calledRESPECTand PPsux earned itPWNED!
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#17 Kangaroo

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 04:32 AM

View PostRDog, on Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 5:23 AM, said:

I know Roothlus is a great player but why would he assume Prty had Aces here? Maybe I play my Aces different but I wouldn't want to chase him away and would have just called the re-raise with Aces. Why wouldn't I want to see a flop as a 4 to 1 favorite? Is it possible he has aces there? Yes. But the range of hands he put you on.....I just don't get it. In situations like this, I always like to think, "What would Dan Harrington do?". And to quote him, except for certain satellite situations, "Never lay down Kings". Am I alone that I don't see his point that he should have folded Kings?
Im not good enough to lay down kings. If my kings run into aces I can pretty hasppily say it wasnt my day.

#18 mk

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 04:34 AM

View PostRDog, on Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 7:23 AM, said:

I Am I alone that I don't see his point that he should have folded Kings?
Did you not read what Roothlus wrote? He had a very strong read that Prty would only play his hand this way if he held KK or AA. Since there is only 1 way to make KK and 6 ways to make AA, he was actually a massive underdog to Prty's range, and therefore folding is correct. This is not hard.

#19 Royal_Tour

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 04:42 AM

It was a stupid Re-raise by roothlus to raise 350 after PP's 160 raise, he talked himself out of calling all in.why? because he sat there thinking, I'm gonna re-raise, and if this guy comes over the top of my re-raise, with a push, its auto aces. it wasnt auto aces this time, which is why, it would have been better to raise from PPsux original raise to about 1k. that way you're not talkin yourself into folding



#20 mk

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 04:47 AM

View PostRoyal_Tour, on Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 7:42 AM, said:

It was a stupid Re-raise by roothlus to raise 350 after PP's 160 raise, he talked himself out of calling all in.why? because he sat there thinking, I'm gonna re-raise, and if this guy comes over the top of my re-raise, with a push, its auto aces. it wasnt auto aces this time, which is why, it would have been better to raise from PPsux original raise to about 1k. that way you're not talkin yourself into folding
huh?




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