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maximizing profit, minimizing suckoutage. wwyd?


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#1 pokercoerce

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 08:10 AM

Was playing at the 6-handed tables at partypoker, NL, blinds at 1$ and 2$...I am dealt A :club: A :) with about $185 in my stack, raise to $10 dollars, and get two callers.Flop...10 :) 8 :club: 3 :club: I bet the pot, which was $30, and both players call immediately, I sense one flush/str8 draw, and one top pair.Turn...A :D ...Awesome turn...now I beat anyone who flopped a set on me, and any possible two pair combo. However, this doesnt change the fact that someone could easily make a str8 or flush on the river. The pot is now at $120 dollars, $40 of which is mine, and presuming the nuts hold up, we can say I've made $80 dollars profit. However, what is the correct play to make right now?Both of my opponents have about $250 dollars left in their stacks, and I have $143. If I bet the pot, $120...i have obligated myself to bet the $23 no matter what comes, so I think that would be silly, and if I bet something like $50 or $70, I would be invested for over $100 and my last $70 would almost certainly end up in the pot even if it looks like somebody completed their flush or str8. I decide that a suckout would be too painful, and go all in for my $143 and both players think for a while...then fold.One claimed to have had J9, for an OESD, and the other didn't comment. I showed them the nuts when they folded, and discussed with them their thoughts on the hand.Although id love to bet $50 on the turn, get two more calls, and make another $100 dollars profit, I would hate to have any draw hit to beat my nuts. If it were a different board, say something like K :club: 8 :D 2 :club: , and the A came on the turn, id be much more inclined to keep my opponents in the hand, since they would be drawing to two pair or maybe a lower set, not a str8 or flush. However, considering the fact that they were both just calling, and not raising, and coupling that with the somewhat coordinated board, I decided to push all my chips and hope my nuts held up if someone called with a draw. Just curious as to what would be the best move in that situation. Keep in mind the title of this post: Maximizing profit, minimizing suckoutage.Thanks in advance for your comments.pokercoerce

#2 Emptyeye

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 08:55 AM

Looks good to me.Especially considering you put one of them on a straight and/or flush draw, I think pushing in was the smart play there. If they call you for all your money and then hit the draw, well then there's nothing you can do, but you made it expensive enough for them that they folded, which was the main goal of the bet.

#3 allinbluff35

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 09:18 AM

I would call with any draw out there just to piss you off if I did hit it. Why you ask? Because of people(like you) that think they are going to get outdrawn everytime they have a set and there is a flush and a straight possibility on the board.
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#4 pokercoerce

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 11:23 AM

Well, if I had a bankroll of 1000 or more, I'd probably slow down when I hit the turn, betting $30, $50, or maybe $70, trying to squeeze more profit from the hand, but since I had my entire bankroll at the table, and didn't want to lose it by getting sucked out on, I decided that although I'd make less profit, it was better to win the pot right there, and continue to play.I know its bad to play with your entire bankroll, but every time I win enough to actually have a bankroll, it seems rent is due etc...I made a tough laydown yesterday due to the same reason. Had K :club: J :club: , raised $10 pre-flop, got re-raised by the bigstack to $20, and called.The flop was J :) 8 :D 4 :D , the guy bets $33 at me, which was really odd, he never bet in funny amounts like that...so I called.The turn was the 4 :) , giving me top two, and a diamond draw also...and he puts me all in for $150. I think for a loooong time and fold. He claims to have been bluffing with slick, which I actually figured was what he had, but since it was for all my chips, and my whole bankroll, I didn't want to have to pay to find out. Similar to the first hand, I also would have made the call if I had plenty of bankroll in reserve, but couldn't. I can't make any money if I don't have any left....

#5 wrto4556

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 12:22 PM

Make them pay to draw. Don't give it to them cheap.
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#6 JETMECMAN

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 01:45 PM

I think its the right play but I would have tryied to bet $45 to get one of them to try and come over the top of me since all my chips are going in any way. Besides that chasing a OESD to the river aginst trip As I like players that do that they pay my house note.
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#7 Smasharoo

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 02:42 AM

Easiest push ever.Not pushing there is horrible.You get calls from two pair and undersets almost allways.You get calls from 8 outers on occasion, which is great, and sometimes they fold, which is great too.

#8 Naismith

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 06:22 AM

I'm going to have to agree with your play here.Any draws beat you and any made hand will call your bet. Sure, you'd like to make more, but you definitely made more than if a flush or a straight came! :)Peace,Jay

#9 wrto4556

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 02:41 PM

Naismith said:

I'm going to have to agree with your play here.Any draws beat you and any made hand will call your bet. Sure, you'd like to make more, but you definitely made more than if a flush or a straight came! :)Peace,Jay
That's horrible advice.
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#10 Naismith

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 05:12 PM

wrto4556 said:

Naismith said:

I'm going to have to agree with your play here.Any draws beat you and any made hand will call your bet. Sure, you'd like to make more, but you definitely made more than if a flush or a straight came! :)Peace,Jay
That's horrible advice.
Well, I definitely don't claim to be an expert and I'm here to learn, so could you be a little more specific since I think I'm giving the same advice that you did above? :)Make the draws pay because they're the only hands that beat your trip aces. Made hands, like two pair, will probably call your all in anyway.Peace,Jay

#11 wrto4556

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 07:47 PM

Naismith said:

wrto4556 said:

Naismith said:

I'm going to have to agree with your play here.Any draws beat you and any made hand will call your bet. Sure, you'd like to make more, but you definitely made more than if a flush or a straight came! :)Peace,Jay
That's horrible advice.
Well, I definitely don't claim to be an expert and I'm here to learn, so could you be a little more specific since I think I'm giving the same advice that you did above? :)Make the draws pay because they're the only hands that beat your trip aces. Made hands, like two pair, will probably call your all in anyway.Peace,Jay
Im incredibly sorry. I thought you were saying something else. Like check. :roll:
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#12 Vade

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 09:17 PM

Great move!You'll probably draw a call from an underset, or if the case A is out there making top two pair.Plus, I doubt that you having top set is all that obvious.Oh, and I would call bs on the guy claiming to have an OESD.




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