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Quiz Question #15


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Poll: Stud 8 (238 member(s) have cast votes)

What is Your Move?

  1. Call (122 votes [51.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.26%

  2. Raise (104 votes [43.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.70%

  3. Fold (12 votes [5.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.04%

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#21 Zach6668

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 02:35 AM

I thought BigDMcGee left...
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#22 blakheart

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 06:55 AM

I vote for raise, but stud is my weakest game. My thinking is that you want to knock 7 10 out if you can and then ou will be the only one with a chance at low. 99 and QA are both going high for sure, so playing against 2 competing high hands is good when going low. In addition, you have a backdoor flush draw, and can represent a flush with another club. I like an aggressive line here.

#23 shpaget

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 01:56 PM

Get the Hell out...there's a good chance you're gonna end up caught in a raising war between player one and player 3, and you don't want to be calling another raise (or two raises) where you still have to hit a draw.You play to scoop, not to split, even against two other people, especially when they're raising each other (unless you have ALREADY hit your low).If you raise you could very well end up isolated with player 3, and still needing a draw for half the pot.You only have 13 outs, and if the 7 is sticking around, there's a good chance he has a couple of them.We also haven't been told what other low door cards folded to the bring-in. Also - did player 3, with a showing pair, bet a small bet or a big bet...another thing to consider, especially with the initial raiser still to act after you.You're drawing thin, for half the pot...get out now.NOTE: this would be different if player 1 had the lead, and bet, and you were last to act and able to close the action...in that case I probably would call if player 2 and/or 3 had called.
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#24 BigDMcGee

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 07:09 PM

View Postblakheart, on Monday, April 17th, 2006, 10:55 PM, said:

I vote for raise, but stud is my weakest game. My thinking is that you want to knock 7 10 out if you can and then ou will be the only one with a chance at low. 99 and QA are both going high for sure, so playing against 2 competing high hands is good when going low. In addition, you have a backdoor flush draw, and can represent a flush with another club. I like an aggressive line here.
This is the worst post I've read all day. Granted, I've only read one post. The last thing you should do in this situation is fold.
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#25 FullMontyM1

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 07:27 PM

Folding here is super-weak, and if I recall correctly, wasn't even an option when the poll went up in the first place and was added later.Monty

#26 Oblivious

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 09:01 PM

View Postshpaget, on Monday, April 17th, 2006, 2:56 PM, said:

Get the Hell out...there's a good chance you're gonna end up caught in a raising war between player one and player 3, and you don't want to be calling another raise (or two raises) where you still have to hit a draw.You play to scoop, not to split, even against two other people, especially when they're raising each other (unless you have ALREADY hit your low).
Worst advice ever. You will not end up in a raising war between 1 and 3, since they know theyre competing against each other for half the pot on the high side. This hand has enough scoop potential and if you raise AQ could call two cold. Youre way ahead of all your opponents for at least half of a multiway pot. Folding is terrible. Raising charges player 2 to draw against you for a low and charges player one the maximum to beat player 3 if he does indeed have split queens.

#27 mrdannyg

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 09:01 PM

View PostZach6668, on Monday, April 17th, 2006, 6:35 AM, said:

I thought BigDMcGee left...
i had K3 in the big blind today, small blind limped and I raised because he was weak.he called, flop comes 336. he bets, i raise, he 3-bets and I cap. turn is a 5, he bets. i actually said "pinch pinch" as I raised.sure enough, river 2 and he shows down A4.oh well, i'm almost cool
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#28 jayboogie

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 09:10 PM

View PostBigDMcGee, on Monday, April 17th, 2006, 11:09 PM, said:

This is the worst post I've read all day. Granted, I've only read one post. The last thing you should do in this situation is fold.
Must have quoted the wrong post huh?

#29 benjammin

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 09:48 PM

Here's my read of the hands. I'm guessing the Q up is raising with a pair, trying to isolate against low hands hoping they miss. A 7 calling out of poistion with a 4 behind them sure sounds like he's got A-2 under there and is trying to trap any other low draws out there who feel like getting frisky. The 9 calling against a Q up raiser has to be a straight draw, but I think it's more likely (given their play on 4th street) that they have a 2-flush, 2-straight pair going. I just can't imagine what other range of hands they would just call with here. After fourth street, my worst-case scenario read is like this:Kc Qs Qc Ac2s As 7c TcTs 9h 9s 9c8c 5s 4c 2cI think you'll learn a few things by calling here. First off, I really don't think you have to worry about Player #2 all that much, the only thing a 10 could improve is if he actually had a middle-straight draw like 9-8-7, but considering I'm putting player 3 on trip 9s, I don't see that, I see him folding. The unfortunate part for you is that you're out of poistion here, and Player 1's play determines a lot here. If Player 1 calls or raises, you have to figure they have a big high hand already, because betting on two 9s has to be setting off some alarms. The great thing about Stud 8 is player 3 can just as easily see that no one else has really improved much, and they might be trying to take the bull by the horns and isolate against you, the most viable low draw (killing your EV) with just a pair of 9s and 8-7 in the hole. I think this is much more likely the scenario rather than trip 9s. Assuming this is Player 1's read, he'd either be in there raising or calling. If this is the situation, with 9 small bets in front of you and the best (and scariest) low draw, I'd try to trap Player 1 for as many bets as I can get, you have the best EV in the hand so why not try and make it a big one instead of a small one. Who knows, maybe you'll hit a cash card like a 3 of clubs on 5th street and scoop it right there. Raising only encourages Player 1 not to get stubborn with his big pair. Folding seems worthless. A lot of people seem to think this is a low-only hand, but you've got a lot of options at making a flush or low straight and the last time I checked, you're playing for both pots. The one caveat: This is in a $1500/$3000 game with people who bet more per hand than I've got in my bank account. Depending on the type of player Player 1 is, his play might be dictated by that. He could easily toss away a big pair there, I would definitely consider it. In short: You have EV, you've got more ways to improve than you do to lose even if everyone is killing your flush cards: Call and win a big one.

#30 dingas

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 10:26 PM

Raise. If the open nines had trips or 2 pair, he would probably go for the checkraise in this spot to try to get as much money in the pot as possible (after all, he has to expect you to bet after catching a low suited card). His most likely hand here is just a pair of nines and he is hoping that you'll raise to knock out the pair of queens. And you are a favourite against a pair of nines, so you want to raise for value.There's nothing wrong with calling, either. That was my first instinct until I read the other posts and thought about it a bit. Folding would be absurd.
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#31 cgrohman

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 12:39 AM

Stud 8 or better is a split pot game in which you really want to scoop the pot. Obviously, you are not folding so the question is between raising in an attempt to get the pot heads up with Players 1 and 2 or calling and giving them good odds to draw.I think this is a very tough decision, but I lean toward raising here. Given that the 99 lead out, daniel is likely to need to make a straight his his flush to win the high. He also has a decent low draw but has to worry about player 2. The best way to ensure the best chance at scooping th epot is to raise and force the other 2 out and play the pot heads up. By calling, he will let player 2 in, who can conterfeit his low and if he doesn't make his high draw he is left with 0. If player;s 1 and 2 drop, he is a string mathematical favorite for at least half the pot after 7th street.

#32 etip

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 02:18 AM

I'm sure someone has said this already, but I say raise to force out the 7 draw, and then you are on a free roll to catch some sort of flush or straight to scoop, w/ half guaranteed. Otherwise you face the serious threat of losing the whole pot if the 7 sticks around.

View Postdingas, on Monday, April 17th, 2006, 10:26 PM, said:

Raise. If the open nines had trips or 2 pair, he would probably go for the checkraise in this spot to try to get as much money in the pot as possible (after all, he has to expect you to bet after catching a low suited card). His most likely hand here is just a pair of nines and he is hoping that you'll raise to knock out the pair of queens. And you are a favourite against a pair of nines, so you want to raise for value.
Very good analysis of player 3's motivation. I didn't even think of that. I agree, raise, and put player 1 to the test (not that it matters - you basically have a lock on the low as long as player 2 folds).

#33 Rocketwadster

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 04:10 AM

We were never provided the suits of the other cards, which leads me to believe it is a call rather than a raise. However, if we catch a low on the next card, we are betting/raising until the cows come home IMO.

#34 Red_foot_soldier

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 04:54 AM

What I'm about to say assumes your low draw is still pretty live, since I don't know what other cards are gone. The first thing to realise is that your chances to scoop the pot with your weak low draw are pretty small. Player 3 probably has three nines or two pair, and Player 1 almost certainly has a pair of queens. So you do whatever you have to do to keep in both high hands while eliminating your opposition for low. Its a tough decision between calling and raising. If you call, you make it quite cheap for Player 2 to take off another card to his probable low draw, unless Player 1 raises which I think is unlikely. If you raise, you run the risk of eliminating Player 1 and Player 2, leaving you heads up with a high hand with almost zero scoop chances. You might even have to fold on fifth street if you catch a brick, depending on how big the pot is. If this were a typical online game I would raise, because I know that online, players 1 and 2 are likely to call even two bets in this situation, and I want to get as much money into the pot as possible. I highly doubt there are excellent players in the hand because first of all a queen is raising in a multiway pot, and a nine is calling!
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#35 Marcstar

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 06:31 AM

I skipped all the replys because I don't care what others think. Here you just call. Player two should fold to one bet because he bricked on 4th so you would be drawing to a low with no other lows to fight with and hopefully two highs. If you catch a low you can try to jam as long as you can keep both players in.Some reasons why you would raise are if player two is a donk you might want to raise since he is the only one that looks to be going low and if you think both highs will stay in. Your hand is pretty much a one way hand at this point and its' still a draw so thats why I think calling is the best...although knowing you...you raised. I don't think raising is all that bad either especially if the game is one where people are raising a ton on 4th.Now I'm going to read what the others said.Edit....this wasnt asked but the 8 low starter should have been folded to the raise in the first place since the guy with a 7 called before you. You have an 8 low draw (second best at this point) and no high draw really. If this situation is played 100 times you lose a lot of money playing this dog hand.

#36 thekid2006

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 07:45 AM

I definitely think a call is in order. You are a big favorite over the only other supposed low draw and you want him to continue putting money in as a dog. When you have a primarily one-way hand such as this you appreciate the extra money put in by worse hands. Calling does not add any deception to your hand as to any good stud player once you call a bet by open nines your hand is pretty much an open book. Contrary to what everyone else says, this hand does have some high potential with a 3-flush and 3-straight and apparently live cards (3s and 6s). With regards to calling a raise with 4-5-8 (3rd st.), it is not that out of line. If you play perfectly after 4th and can realize the danger of catching bad, you aren't really giving that much up. You have a 2 flush and a 3 straight. Plus, the seven that called doesnt have to have 3 pieces to a seven low. Probably does, but not 100%. My two cents.....

#37 JacKingOff_suit

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 08:30 AM

Easy call but not a raise.1. I don't see others' low potentials. And there aren't many low cards out there on 3rd and 4th street giving hero a good shot.2. I call to give everyone else the odds to chase for the high so I can get a juicy low.3. Hero's hand still has scoopability.All in all, give yourself the odds to chase by keeping others in. This is not a hand you want to reduce players in the pot.This goes against my signature thou. :club:
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#38 RayPowers

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 08:47 AM

I really wish we could see the suits of the other players cards. I want to know how many of my clubs are out there, and if anyone is still hunting for a flush as well. I like the opporunity of a scoop, so if not many clubs are out, but Player 1 or 2 are drawing to a flush, I like the raise to try to price them out of drawing to their flushes and maybe lows.... If noone else looks like they are on the flush draw, and I am down a couple of clubs, I think I'd prefer the call.Ray

#39 ariston

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 09:26 AM

Automatic raise. You are 4 to a made low with backdoor str8 and flush opportunities. If you let the guy with the 7 stay in he can easily make a better low than you, just because he hit a brick on 4th doesnt mean he will hit another on 5th and you have to make him pay. If you catch any 1of 16 cards on 5th you will be freerolling when the big bets are being put in, if you hit a dream card on 5th you may have a huge freeroll with str8 draws. I spent quite a bit of time with Kirk in Australi in January and sweated you both for a long while in the tag team event - look forward to hooking up with him again in July/august in Vegas when a few of us are coming over for a month or so of the series (basketball challenge kirk??).

#40 waldo_otto

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 09:47 AM

Tough question, Daniel. My instincts are to call and see what develops. Does your knowledge of your opponents come into play here? Did you consider reraising on 3rd street?




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