Why You Shouldnt Use The Massive Overbet.

[Petoria 0]

Full Tilt Poker Game #549357139: Table Promenade (6 max) - $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:11:26 ET - 2006/04/06Seat 2: BraveJayhawk ($700.50), is sitting outSeat 3: Petoria ($1,078.10)Seat 4: ransom1357 ($223.60)Seat 5: Shaner9 ($142.30)Seat 6: richde54 ($628.70)richde54 posts the small blind of $2Petoria posts the big blind of $4The button is in seat #5*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Petoria [6d Ad]ransom1357 foldsShaner9 foldsrichde54 calls $2Petoria checks*** FLOP *** [4d 8d 2d]richde54 checksthnkUcomeAgain sits downPetoria checks*** TURN *** [4d 8d 2d] [9c]richde54 checksthnkUcomeAgain adds $160Petoria bets $8richde54 calls $8*** RIVER *** [4d 8d 2d 9c] [9d]richde54 checksPetoria bets $20richde54 raises to $616.70, and is all inPetoria has 15 seconds left to actPetoria foldsUncalled bet of $596.70 returned to richde54richde54 shows [8h 9s] (a full house, Nines full of Eights)richde54 wins the pot ($62)This is a situation where he could get a call by making a moderate sized raise, but instead, he decided to move all in and get me to fold a good hand.I know there was a debate about it last week, so I decided to post this example of why it shouldnt be used.

[Frinkenstein 0]

Full Tilt Poker Game #549357139: Table Promenade (6 max) - $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:11:26 ET - 2006/04/06Seat 2: BraveJayhawk ($700.50), is sitting outSeat 3: Petoria ($1,078.10)Seat 4: ransom1357 ($223.60)Seat 5: Shaner9 ($142.30)Seat 6: richde54 ($628.70)richde54 posts the small blind of $2Petoria posts the big blind of $4The button is in seat #5*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Petoria [6d Ad]ransom1357 foldsShaner9 foldsrichde54 calls $2Petoria checks*** FLOP *** [4d 8d 2d]richde54 checksthnkUcomeAgain sits downPetoria checks*** TURN *** [4d 8d 2d] [9c]richde54 checksthnkUcomeAgain adds $160Petoria bets $8richde54 calls $8*** RIVER *** [4d 8d 2d 9c] [9d]richde54 checksPetoria bets $20richde54 raises to $616.70, and is all inPetoria has 15 seconds left to actPetoria foldsUncalled bet of $596.70 returned to richde54richde54 shows [8h 9s] (a full house, Nines full of Eights)richde54 wins the pot ($62)This is a situation where he could get a call by making a moderate sized raise, but instead, he decided to move all in and get me to fold a good hand.I know there was a debate about it last week, so I decided to post this example of why it shouldnt be used.

Boy oh boy that's a tough laydown. I'm not sure I could ever make that one. What if he had Kd?

[MasterLJ 0]

Certainly depends on the opponent.I will not pretend to be an expert at $2/$4 online, since it's way out of my league, but at the lower stakes and at comparable stakes live, 90% of the players will not put down their nut flush, thus making the huge overbet a better option.I can see diminishing returns depending on the stakes as you get higher.

[DonkSlayer 1]

2 observations..1st, the massive overbet is no good here b/c we can put you on a hand that isn't necessarily the nut flush or even a flush, so really we're up against too many marginal holdings to get this paid off.2nd, I BY FAR see the massive-overbet technique used most often on Full Tilt. Every once in a while on Party, never on UB or Pokerroom/FCP.

[Petoria 0]

Boy oh boy that's a tough laydown. I'm not sure I could ever make that one. What if he had Kd?

To tell you the truth, I found the laydown to be fairly standard at 2/4.There arent many donks who are going to overbet the pot 6x over with anything other than the nuts.Maybe at .25/.50, overbets should be called more often, but it's more about knowing your opponent. There are good players at .25/.50 who know that people think that overbets are obscenely weak. I think that the overbet at .25/.50 NL is much tougher to play against, than the overbet at 2/4 NL.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Boy oh boy that's a tough laydown. I'm not sure I could ever make that one. What if he had Kd?

If he had the K he made an astoundingly poor bet. He has a flush, but he might as well have nothing. Nobody he's beating can call that bet.

[krup24 0]

Laydown is pretty standard here with the board pairing and him hoping ur chasing a diamond with the ace only. Well played.

[Shaffer 0]

Like I said in the previous thread, unless you have a specific read on your opponent as a complete retard, the massive overbet is a huge mistake. That said, when you *do* have that read, failing to make it is a pretty substantial leak, as those that call it (say at $0.25-$0.50) will give you an insane amount of value.At $2-$4 I'd say it's just idiotic. Players can't be counted on to be that stupid at that level.Nice laydown. Pretty standard at that level I would say (I don't play that high, but I generally make that laydown at $0.50-$1.00 too). Still hurts to dump that nut flush though.