Out Of Line

[Scott3705 0]

Smallish type tourney only 300 people or so. Sorry if the stacks/etc. are shakeyITM final tableBlinds are somewhere around 3k6k (don't exatly remember)6 left. I'm the chip leader with about 150k in the BB with AK. A short stack of about 25k He gets 3 LP callers. Is this a push or is a push out of line here?

[BeaverStyle 1]

Smallish type tourney only 300 people or so. Sorry if the stacks/etc. are shakeyITM final tableBlinds are somewhere around 3k6k (don't exatly remember)6 left. I'm the chip leader with about 150k in the BB with AK. A short stack of about 25k He gets 3 LP callers. Is this a push or is a push out of line here?

wow talk about a lag table... I'm not sure here, i'd say only push in if you've seen those players call w/ weaker hands like Ax, KQ,KJ, ... i don't understand how they all could call, since you'd figure one of them would want to isolate w/ any hand ranging from 77-JJ, AK, AQ, and would probably still push over the top w/ QQ, KK and AA.I think both are options, but i'd go with fold, since a few of those LP callers could be holding someo of your outs if you happen to be up against a pair(s).

[anselm 0]

Hey could you post the entire hand history for this?

[gobears 0]

I think that I call this and jam if an A or K hits the flop. I'm getting 5.7-1 on the call preflop - more than enough to see a flop.Not sure about pushing here into three other players who probably have some of my outs.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

I just visited this online article by Sklansky again. According to the formula it's a clear push.Anyone has tried this all-in strategy? Did it work in the long run? I will try it later since playing with the formula is a no-brainer and it'll spare me a lot of times playing other games at the same time as well.

[Scott3705 0]

Hey could you post the entire hand history for this?

I will, but it will bias the discussion for right now. The final table had had a few of these hands that seemed to be called by far too many people for a tournament. I was fairly sure that I could isolate the short stack who I am way ahed of here most of the time. There was only one caller who had put in a good chunk of his stack he would be the final one to act, but the rest of the callers had something to lose especially because it looked like I might knock two people out. the LP player had about 70K in front of him here to start.

I think that I call this and jam if an A or K hits the flop. I'm getting 5.7-1 on the call preflop - more than enough to see a flop.Not sure about pushing here into three other players who probably have some of my outs.

If we think we can fold all three players is this a push w/ the extra money hanging around the pot?

[anselm 0]

By "post the entire hand history" I meant without a result. I have a pretty strong idea of what I would do but want to see exact figures first: blinds, stacks, everything.

[Scott3705 0]

By "post the entire hand history" I meant without a result. I have a pretty strong idea of what I would do but want to see exact figures first: blinds, stacks, everything.

This is from memory from Sports.com It has hand history, but damned if I could ever find the one I'm looking for.

[copernicus 0]

I just visited this online article by Sklansky again. According to the formula it's a clear push.Anyone has tried this all-in strategy? Did it work in the long run? I will try it later since playing with the formula is a no-brainer and it'll spare me a lot of times playing other games at the same time as well.

KillPhil, which used this as a starting point, is much better. This isnt a push in the Sklansky article anyway..with a raised pot you only push with AKs.I call and see the flop. You almost certainly arent up against AA or KK, and youre getting great odds to see if you can hit the K or A and possibly have the table dominated at that point. You need to watch out for sets of course.

[anselm 0]

Ok well without having the full details I'd say push. I can't find a good reason not to push. Short stack could have anything really. If he does have aces or kings oh well too bad - it's only 25k. This doesn't even vaguely dent your stack. For four BB you really need to be fighting for this... but not in a big multi-way pot. Anybody with a hand that's dominating you would almost certainly have raised already. If one of them calls too, which seems unlikely, you're probably a pretty big favorite so even if the short stack beats you you could easily make back those chips from the other guy (and bust someone after all). The potential advantage here is just too amazing to pass up. If you do get heads up with the short stack and lose you're down $25k and still chip leader with 21 BB. If you do get heads up with short stack and win you've almost doubled up without risking jack ****. You win this pot the game's over. You have such a dominating lead there's no reason you can't completely run over everyone else. This just seems like such a classic squeeze situation. Everyone is smooth calling hoping to bust someone and move up a pay slot without risking much - punish them for it: "You want to see this shortie bust? Then you'll have to risk your entire stack too - and possibly bust instead of the shortie." Plus it's an image thing - let them know who's boss and assert that passive play won't be tolerated on your watch.

[Scott3705 0]

Ok well without having the full details I'd say push. I can't find a good reason not to push. Short stack could have anything really. If he does have aces or kings oh well too bad - it's only 25k. This doesn't even vaguely dent your stack. For four BB you really need to be fighting for this... but not in a big multi-way pot. Anybody with a hand that's dominating you would almost certainly have raised already. If one of them calls too, which seems unlikely, you're probably a pretty big favorite so even if the short stack beats you you could easily make back those chips from the other guy (and bust someone after all). The potential advantage here is just too amazing to pass up. If you do get heads up with the short stack and lose you're down $25k and still chip leader with 21 BB. If you do get heads up with short stack and win you've almost doubled up without risking jack ****. You win this pot the game's over. You have such a dominating lead there's no reason you can't completely run over everyone else. This just seems like such a classic squeeze situation. Everyone is smooth calling hoping to bust someone and move up a pay slot without risking much - punish them for it: "You want to see this shortie bust? Then you'll have to risk your entire stack too - and possibly bust instead of the shortie." Plus it's an image thing - let them know who's boss and assert that passive play won't be tolerated on your watch.

hahaha. Well I guess one person agreed with me. I pushed this pot and got a fold out of all the other limpers. I lost the pot against JQ, which just dented my stack. One player at the table, who i respected as a good player got on me about it, saying on top of being a -EV move, it was out of line and we should have just checked through to knock him out.

[TheMathProf 0]

hahaha. Well I guess one person agreed with me. I pushed this pot and got a fold out of all the other limpers. I lost the pot against JQ, which just dented my stack. One player at the table, who i respected as a good player got on me about it, saying on top of being a -EV move, it was out of line and we should have just checked through to knock him out.

I wouldn't say it's out of line. There's 100K in the pot, which represents a 67% increase in your stack.That's absolutely huge.

[copernicus 0]

classic squeeze situation?This has nothing to do with a squeeze.

[anselm 0]

classic squeeze situation?This has nothing to do with a squeeze.

I've heard more than a few people refer to this as a "squeeze play," including several top pros along with random players. It also fits every definition I've ever read.But I'm glad to see you decided to quibble with my terms rather than correcting my logic or addressing the content/gist of my post. Copernicus, I highly respect you and your game but come on, cut me some slack.

[copernicus 0]

I've heard more than a few people refer to this as a "squeeze play," including several top pros along with random players. It also fits every definition I've ever read.But I'm glad to see you decided to quibble with my terms rather than correcting my logic or addressing the content/gist of my post. Copernicus, I highly respect you and your game but come on, cut me some slack.

There isnt enough information to agree or disagree with your logic.A squeeze play is trapping a possibly better hand than yours that bet in EP between your hand and a bigger stack that called behind him, allowing you to play HU vs the weaker second hand in. I have never seen nor heard it used in any other way, especially one where there are multiple callers. HoH has a very different definition if you want to read one. Sorry, forget which volume.