Floppy Sets

[Jordan 1]

$200 NL on Bodog. Very loose table. Avg. pot was 40bb when I sat down.I had just lost a smallish pot w QQ and luckily got a rebuy in before the next deal.HERO (UTG+1) : $200ep1 : $213ep2 : $38ep3 : $148sb : $217bb : $150I limp w 22, as do all of the above. BB checks.FLOP :: Jd 4d 2s ($12)sb checks, bb checks, hero check, ep1 bet $6, ep2 call $6, ep3 call $6, sb call $6, bb fold. I raise to $36, ep1 calls, the rest fold.TURN :: 4s ($102)Hero bets $65, ep1 debates, folds...--I didn't really have a read on the EP1 as he had just sat, the rest were pretty donkish, so when I got HU on the turn I really didn't know what to put him on. A naked J, or flush draw...meh...I thought about check/raising, but figured if he was drawing to a flush $65 was a price he could perhaps call, although maybe a weaker bet of $45 would be better.Thoughts of a weaker bet > check/raise, or do most still lead this turn?- Jordan

[Steeeve28 0]

I'm a nobody here but figured I'd offer my quick two cents...Your lead on the turn isn't bad, but I dont think its the best play here. I would have most likely bet a little less (around 45 like you said), or just checked in hopes that EP would think his AJ or whatever was good and would try to take the pot right then and there. I just think that for $65, EP is either gonna know he's up against something that has his jacks beat, or he won't be getting a good enough price to draw to a flush that might not even be good on that board.For max value I think weaker bet or check/raise on turn.

[HurricaneKyle 0]

Make a bet that a jack could call. There is no reason to scare him out of this pot, build it up now so you can make a bigger bet on the river. You don't want to lose him.

[Scott3705 0]

My eyes are bleeding. I think I see people advocating putting less than half pot into this turn. You know what happens if you check.... .check. Let's just announce we filled up and are not worried about the flush anymore.I chalk this up to there being 6 people in this flop. a C/R on this flop shows a lot of strength and a naked jack is simply going to be scared of you here. Because there's so many people, I think you can make an argument for leading the flop, trying to sell something like j10. Maybe you get a raise from a jack or a raise from a flush draw.hahahaha... he said he folded j4.

[macphec 0]

I like it. Looks like a flush draw from villian.I probably play it the same way except possibly lead the flop.lol to him folding j4. he folded a crappy flush draw

[Jordan 1]

sorry i may have been unclear.for those of you who read my other post...the guy in this hand never talked to me of his hand....he didn't muck j4, the btn had preflop, and said "lol, i folded j4", then we got to talking about the hand...and so I was like..."hmm wonder what I had" he said "22" and I said "JJ/22, pick your poison."i'm still not sure what the EP1 folded.My table was quite donkish so it's hard to tell.I also thought about leading on the flop, but with so many to act behind me I wanted to c/r so I could price out some draws. If I bet the pot on the flop, no one was going anywhere...so I thought by check/raising I'd thin the field a bit.Did anyone think my raise on the flop was too much? I just decided to pot it and move on...- Jordan

[macphec 0]

sorry i may have been unclear.for those of you who read my other post...the guy in this hand never talked to me of his hand....he didn't muck j4, the btn had preflop, and said "lol, i folded j4", then we got to talking about the hand...and so I was like..."hmm wonder what I had" he said "22" and I said "JJ/22, pick your poison."i'm still not sure what the EP1 folded.My table was quite donkish so it's hard to tell.I also thought about leading on the flop, but with so many to act behind me I wanted to c/r so I could price out some draws. If I bet the pot on the flop, no one was going anywhere...so I thought by check/raising I'd thin the field a bit.Did anyone think my raise on the flop was too much? I just decided to pot it and move on...- Jordan

I think pot sized raise is perfect here to price out the draws.Too many people put in a smaller raise or even slow play in your spot and end up losing a big pot.

[KowboyKoop 0]

I think your bet sizes or just fine. I mean..it isn't like you overbet the pot...that might have been a bit silly. To me...making a smaller bet or checking after the turn just SCREAMS boat in this spot. I think this bet of about 2/3 the pot is fine...gotta play your big hands like your lesser hands sometimes. You may not have gotten paid off this one time, but I think in the long run this is much better than just putting in a weak bet everytime you make a boat...as that is a fairly easy betting pattern to detect.

[MasterLJ 0]

I'm just not sure I would have raised that flop.What draw out there hurts you? You have 35 and the flush draw. Discounting 35, that's 18-20% to come. But since if you do not have the 2d, it will bring you quads, you have removed an out, making it 16-18% to come.I don't advocate slow playing, but jeez, 4 callers before you they're making a sizeable pot and almost guaranteeing some more money in the pot on the turn where you can safely jam the pot 84% of the time, sounds much more profitable.

[Jordan 1]

I'm just not sure I would have raised that flop.What draw out there hurts you? You have 35 and the flush draw. Discounting 35, that's 18-20% to come. But since if you do not have the 2d, it will bring you quads, you have removed an out, making it 16-18% to come.I don't advocate slow playing, but jeez, 4 callers before you they're making a sizeable pot and almost guaranteeing some more money in the pot on the turn where you can safely jam the pot 84% of the time, sounds much more profitable.

Yea. I'm aware of the odds and thought about this too. I'm sure that a few of the callers simply had overcars and felt like calling...but I sitll didn't want to give someone with a pair the chance to the catch up and then me be completely lost in the hand. Although chances of that slim, if just one or two of the callers had a pair, that gives 4 more outs that I have to dodge on the turn, but would be very difficult to 'read' if one came...I'd be more comfortable check calling there if the pot was going to be 3 way on the turn, not 6 way or whatever....- Jordan

[BIG_L_RIP 0]

definitely raise flop with the entire table calling.

[MasterLJ 0]

definitely raise flop with the entire table calling.

Why definitely?I think Jordan played it well, but there are certainly alternatives to any hand that are just as profitable, if not more.

[ICrushHomeGames 0]

You could play this turn either way. I think that the way you played it is better, but you could c/c turn. He could certainly hang himself by value bet/pricing himself in with AJ. If he checks, he's probably on a FD or has you crushed, in which case you're going broke. QQ, TT, 99, and 88 may all bet behind a check. If he hits his flush or OESD, he's broke. It's safe enough to assume that (a) he has something, and (B) you're ahead, so let him catch up. But you should charge him for the turn as if you don't want him to make his flush or OESD. If he misses, he's not calling anyway.

[krup24 0]

I like your play. I personally put out a bit of a weaker bet. Say maybe $45 or so. The check raise is only an option against a player that is going to take the check as a serious sign of weakness otherwise its known as a made hand.It was a good move though.

[Jordan 1]

cool.i pretty much lead with strong hands more often then check/raising...so when i check/raised the flop i was like. oh wow did i just do that...leading the turn seemed like the right thing to do, and is what i ususally do but i was curious as to what others thought...anyone have any thoughts on the other "floppy sets x two thread"- Jordan

[MasterLJ 0]

Personally, I wouldn't have even lead on the turn after calling the flop. ep1 seems destined to give you pseudo-position by betting again. Let the callers call then complete the latter half of the c/r assuming no diamond. And again, this is coming from someone who does not advocate slow playing in most situations.