14 replies to this topic

[daddypoker23]

am usally playing 50/1nl or 1/2nl and in those limits you hardly ever see somebody raise and then if it gets re-raise go over the top with anything less then kk. SO when i re-raise with kk and then that player goes over the top all in.. and i know he has a monster hand probably AA but am to stubburn to muck and call and of course he has aces. i just feel like there is nothing u can really do or am I wrong? peace out joel

[wrto4556]

There's nothing you can do. I had the same thing happen to me yesterday and the guy had queens. The human mind is just stubborn and only remembers the bad times.

[DCWildcat]

I find that it's damn near impossible to get a good enough read online to ever justify folding KK preflop. Then again I'm not a great player, so maybe there are those who can make that read. The only time I would do it would be if I was sure I could outplay the other guy to the extent that I'd trust my long term ability over my odds of an all-in with kings.

[Absolute]

Mucking K-K is a bad thing to do in almost every situation.There is certainly a "type" of player who can make you fold K-K, but that has to be someone extremely extremely tight.But in the long run, it is probably beneficial to always call all of your chips with K-K, even if you have to endure the dreaded and occasional A-A vs K-K

[wrto4556]

Absolute said:

Mucking K-K is a bad thing to do in almost every situation.There is certainly a "type" of player who can make you fold K-K, but that has to be someone extremely extremely tight.But in the long run, it is probably beneficial to always call all of your chips with K-K, even if you have to endure the dreaded and occasional A-A vs K-K

Aggreed. I was limp/reraised by a TAG opponents today and layed down QQ...he was kind enough to show AA after I sat until my time ran out.

[Absolute]

Laying down Q-Q should be a trick in every decent player's poker arsenal.Also, kudos on the strategy blog. I have found it more beneficial than anyone else's hand histories so far on FCP.

[wrto4556]

Absolute said:

Laying down Q-Q should be a trick in every decent player's poker arsenal.Also, kudos on the strategy blog. I have found it more beneficial than anyone else's hand histories so far on FCP.

If you took the quiz, put your answers in the comments! We want to know what everyone thinks.PS. Thanks.

[....Ian....]

i find it hard enuf to lay down KK post flop....but i do it...but it does pain mebut preflop? i dont think i could lay it down.i have a general rule, when i have kings i play like no one else has aces.....maybe this is a bad idea but i aint gonna outthink myself

[daddypoker23]

so basically u have to pay ur dues with kings. peaceout joel

[AKQJs_2o]

....Ian.... said:

i find it hard enuf to lay down KK post flop....but i do it...but it does pain mebut preflop? i dont think i could lay it down.i have a general rule, when i have kings i play like no one else has aces.....maybe this is a bad idea but i aint gonna outthink myself

I agree totally with your assessment.Even if your opponent flops AA to your KK you still have about a 1:4 chance of winning if you're both heads up (KK wins 19%, AA wins 81%).Your opponent has a 220 to 1 shot of having pocket AA (the same odds against you having pocket KK).As Ian said, don't out think yourself ... [/i]

[Wily]

as I posted last night, I had the same situation playing .5/1 NL with some friends yesterday - I had KK and went all in with an opponent holding AA. One thing that happened in my hand (and which has been mentioned on the forum before) is that my opponent raised the MINIMUM after I raised to $6 preflop - this was probably my only time in a live game that I've seen KK vs AA preflop, and it was a bit surprising that this occurred exactly like someone else's experience here. Not that it stopped me or anything - I pushed all in and managed to hit my set on the flop for a nice $120 hand . Would a call in this extraordinary situation have been better? Look for an ace or king on the flop, and then push all in with the right odds (i.e. fold to a big bet if I see an ace, and definitely push all in if I see a K?)? Or is that just stupid, which my natural intuition says it is if I believe I have the best hand preflop.

[MasterLJ]

My KK lost to AA two days ago I believe. He raised big, but not THAT big. I went over the top, he pushed.Honestly, if you are scared that your opponent may have the one single hand that has you beat pre-flop, you really shouldn't be playing cash-games in my opinion.However, if it's multi-way, you may want to consider the option, especially in cash games where time is on your side.But if it's just me and another person, I'd push all in with KK any day.

[jlgosse]

Personally, I think that folding KK would be a horrible move in virtually all situations.Someone could be raising big with any decent pocket pair, it doesn't mean he has AA, so you have no reason to fold. KK has a nice advantage over every other hand with the exception of AA.That being said, I'd gladly move all in with KK even if there was a chance that Player X has AA, it's worth it.

[Wily]

jlgosse said:

Personally, I think that folding KK would be a horrible move in virtually all situations.Someone could be raising big with any decent pocket pair, it doesn't mean he has AA, so you have no reason to fold. KK has a nice advantage over every other hand with the exception of AA.That being said, I'd gladly move all in with KK even if there was a chance that Player X has AA, it's worth it.

My question was originally, would it have been worth it all to call his reraise and take a look at a flop before pushing all in? It's an unorthodox move that I'd only make if I read my opponent on a lot of strength (like I did do last time I had KK v AA). Doing so would allow me to see if I hit a lucky K (which would happen about 10% of the time), and to see if an ace fell (if my opponent has AK or AQ). If neither occurs, I'd still go all in then - and I might push out AK in this situation, or win off a QQ anyway. Of course, usually this would be bad since it gives him a chance to catch something, but I wouldn't mind it against a very tight player.

[NormanHaupt]

I know people who'll go all in AK.. or QQ, or, I even had someone do it t me with, get this, 55 (I whooped him with 99)Laying down KK should never be an option. You'll get some suckouts, but you'll beat AK, AQ, AJ, QQ, and JJ nearly every time.