254 replies to this topic

[Mattnxtc]

The title says it all...Say what you think and why you think?

[DerekTah]

Are we saved by works or by grace?

Baptism seems like its in the area of works to me.

[Mattnxtc]

Are we saved by works or by grace?

Baptism seems like its in the area of works to me.

Its a great question. what do you think? What verses support your idea? I am tryin not to interject with what I think yet to let a variety get on there...I want to see where everybody is coming from.

[LAS22]

Romans 10:9 says confess with your mouth and believe in your heart.

I see baptism as a step of submission. Admitting that you'd like to wash away the old you and become a clean being. It's a step of faith.

I don't see in Scripture where it is required...but Jesus felt the need to be baptized and He lived a sinless life. So, if He felt the need to do it, then I think it's important for all of us to do.

I do know of a lady who is deathly afraid of water. She confessed with her mouth and believes in her heart, so I don't think she should have to get submirsed and have some type of a panic attack.

Just my thoughts.

[DonkSlayer]

I think it comes down to whether you believe that "what the Church on Earth holds, so it is held in heaven".

If your Church says you need to get baptized, get baptized. If not, don't.

[Mattnxtc]

I think it comes down to whether you believe that "what the Church on Earth holds, so it is held in heaven".

If your Church says you need to get baptized, get baptized. If not, don't.

But shouldnt yoru Church be based on the bible? Some do think baptism is necessary, some dont. Which is right?

Let me clarify. I am not asking if you should or shouldnt be baptized. I am asking biblically for reasons to believe we must or dont have to get baptized for salvation

[DonkSlayer]

I'm not familiar enough with the Bible to quote you specifics either way.

But between there being 1,000 interpretations out there and the specifics on the existence of the Bible, I tend to lean toward the Bible, while the most significant, not being the only source of religious/Christian truth.

In fact, I think parts of the Bible sort of infer that it is not the sole source.

Anyway, I've digressed back to my first point...it's what you believe.

[Solodell]

Baptism is a sign before people that you have accepted Christ as your savior, but it in and of itself does not save you.

[FloatingHome]

But shouldnt yoru Church be based on the bible? Some do think baptism is necessary, some dont. Which is right?

Let me clarify. I am not asking if you should or shouldnt be baptized. I am asking biblically for reasons to believe we must or dont have to get baptized for salvation

There are two forms of baptism mentioned in the Bible, which is the why some Christians do not believe in water baptism. Quakers, for example, believe that one is babtized by the Holy Spirit. Here is one of the quotes from the Bible: ""He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire." (Matt 3:11)"

If you are interested in reading more about this here is a link: http://www.quakerinfo.com/forum/viewtopic....ghlight=baptism

[Mattnxtc]

Baptism is a sign before people that you have accepted Christ as your savior, but it in and of itself does not save you.

I agree with this one

There are two forms of baptism mentioned in the Bible, which is the why some Christians do not believe in water baptism. Quakers, for example, believe that one is babtized by the Holy Spirit. Here is one of the quotes from the Bible: ""He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire." (Matt 3:11)"

If you are interested in reading more about this here is a link: http://www.quakerinfo.com/forum/viewtopic....ghlight=baptism

I have actually done quite a bit of research into this b/c it is such a controversial topic. I have found that those who believe in baptism reallly rely on 3 verses to make thier case.

[DerekTah]

There are two forms of baptism mentioned in the Bible, which is the why some Christians do not believe in water baptism. Quakers, for example, believe that one is babtized by the Holy Spirit. Here is one of the quotes from the Bible: ""He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire." (Matt 3:11)"

If you are interested in reading more about this here is a link: http://www.quakerinfo.com/forum/viewtopic....ghlight=baptism

So I guess we should baptise babies by fire, gee that will be a fun church outing.

[brvheart]

I think it comes down to whether you believe that "what the Church on Earth holds, so it is held in heaven".

If your Church says you need to get baptized, get baptized. If not, don't.

Although I love you Donkslayer, this advice is terrible. Why? Because the Bible says that we should follow Christ's example and be baptised. It most certainly does NOT say that baptism is required for salvation. But we should make a public display of the change that has happened in our life.

[cu in 4years Dan]

im not baptised and im a Christian.
my parents felt that i should make that choice and i thank them for that.

its not like you need to do it but it is a good way to show your faith to God.
that said i havent been baptised

[Mattnxtc]

im not baptised and im a Christian.
my parents felt that i should make that choice and i thank them for that.

its not like you need to do it but it is a good way to show your faith to God.
that said i havent been baptised

Great post

[socalpoker_j]

Speaking as one who has been baptized... I see it a seal of the covenant that we hold with God. God has communicated his love for us in the sacraments of the Word, prayer, and baptism. In this act of baptism, God's love and grace is conveyed to us, as his children. It is a visible demonstration of the inward love and devotion that we have for God and a confirmation for the believer that God affirms his love for us. To me, baptism is an important decision in the Christian life, however it is not a necessary means to salvation. Baptism cannot be a means to salvation, because then we would be adding our own works to the already perfected work that Christ performed on the cross and according the Bible we cannot save ourselves:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from youselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do " (Eph. 2:8,9).

[Mattnxtc]

Speaking as one who has been baptized... I see it a seal of the covenant that we hold with God. God has communicated his love for us in the sacraments of the Word, prayer, and baptism. In this act of baptism, God's love and grace is conveyed to us, as his children. It is a visible demonstration of the inward love and devotion that we have for God and a confirmation for the believer that God affirms his love for us. To me, baptism is an important decision in the Christian life, however it is not a necessary means to salvation. Baptism cannot be a means to salvation, because then we would be adding our own works to the already perfected work that Christ performed on the cross and according the Bible we cannot save ourselves:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from youselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do " (Eph. 2:8,9).

Check out Ephesians 1:13 and you will see that Paul mentions something else is the "seal" that you speak of.

[brvheart]

Is circumcision necessary for salvation?


If baptism is.

[Loismustdie]

Although I love you Donkslayer, this advice is terrible. Why? Because the Bible says that we should follow Christ's example and be baptised. It most certainly does NOT say that baptism is required for salvation. But we should make a public display of the change that has happened in our life.

" Unless a man is born again of the water and of the spirit he CANNOT enter the kingdom of God. "

It's actually quite clear. The easiest thing to say is show me a sinners prayer in the bible, and a little trivia for you- who can find the scripture that talks about whether or not God hears the prayer of a sinner?

You will find that he doesn't- so, the question is what can we do, what kind of spiritual operation was put into place to take the label of sinners off of us and put us into a position where God does hear our prayers?

If you just read your Bibles you will find that it's baptism. The blood of Jesus, figuratively, saves you- in order to get to it you need to be baptized into the body of Christ, and the bible says as much.

Mainstream christianity will do everything they can to play bullfighter with a rug and try to divert you away from this, twisting the scriptures, retranslating from the greek to atempt to mask the truth, and just plain lies as well- but, the bible speaks for itself, and until you can find a scripture that says that baptism is merely an outward sign of an inward dedication, or a scripture where a disciple says" Say a sinners prayer" instead of " Hey, why don't you get baptized?- I will continue to follow truth and basic reading skills.

This is so easy it makes me wonder how in the world anyone could actually do extensive study on the subject and still get it wrong. Thats amazing. It's akin to having a hard time making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

[Mattnxtc]

" Unless a man is born again of the water and of the spirit he CANNOT enter the kingdom of God. "

It's actually quite clear. The easiest thing to say is show me a sinners prayer in the bible, and a little trivia for you- who can find the scripture that talks about whether or not God hears the prayer of a sinner?

You will find that he doesn't- so, the question is what can we do, what kind of spiritual operation was put into place to take the label of sinners off of us and put us into a position where God does hear our prayers?

If you just read your Bibles you will find that it's baptism. The blood of Jesus, figuratively, saves you- in order to get to it you need to be baptized into the body of Christ, and the bible says as much.

Mainstream christianity will do everything they can to play bullfighter with a rug and try to divert you away from this, twisting the scriptures, retranslating from the greek to atempt to mask the truth, and just plain lies as well- but, the bible speaks for itself, and until you can find a scripture that says that baptism is merely an outward sign of an inward dedication, or a scripture where a disciple says" Say a sinners prayer" instead of " Hey, why don't you get baptized?- I will continue to follow truth and basic reading skills.

This is so easy it makes me wonder how in the world anyone could actually do extensive study on the subject and still get it wrong. Thats amazing. It's akin to having a hard time making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

Lois....Who is Jesus talkin to in John 3:5 (the verse you quoted) and why did you not bother to post the rest of what goes on in that verse, mainly the part where Jesus says these are things that the Pharisee should have known. Now this leads to a question that so far no baptism saves person has been able to answer.

At no time has a water baptism brought about salvation. Even when John the Baptist was baptizing, it was merely for repentance. So how could Jesus expect a Jewish Pharisee to understand that Jesus was saying that being baptized in Jesus's name would now save you? Its a matter of putting the cart before the horse Lois. You are tryin to apply something that came after Jesus's death to something that was said before His death and I am sorry but it wont work

[Swift_Psycho]

You will find that he doesn't- so, the question is what can we do, what kind of spiritual operation was put into place to take the label of sinners off of us and put us into a position where God does hear our prayers?

If you just read your Bibles you will find that it's baptism. The blood of Jesus, figuratively, saves you- in order to get to it you need to be baptized into the body of Christ, and the bible says as much.

So in your opinion, it is works and not faith that ultimately saves Christians, correct? This isn't criticism, btw, I'm actually asking for clarification.