18 replies to this topic

[KDawgCometh]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is SB with [K :heart: ], [K :spade: ]. 6 folds, BB calls.Flop: (4 SB) [T :heart: ], [K :diamond: ], [T :club: ] (2 players)Hero checks, BB checks.Turn: (2 BB) [6 :spade: ] (2 players)Hero checks, BB checks.River: (2 BB) [J :diamond: ] (2 players)Hero bets, BB folds.Final Pot: 3 BBshould I have just bet out, or was I doomed to win this baby pot regardless

[wrto4556]

You raised pre-flop. Follow up with aggression.

[akishore]

wrto is right on. anyone who checks a flop after raising pre-flop gives away their monster hand. lead out on the flop; if you win a baby pot, so what... you would have won the same baby pot like you did slowplaying. if anything, leading out on the flop would disguise your monster hand because too many people slowplay trips and boats.hope this helps,aseem

[Jtmaroon84]

This guy isnt going to put you on a set if you bet here so why not just bet? At least if the guy had a draw he would have called at that point, by waiting to the river you didn't let him pay for his draws.

[Briguy]

You probably won't get paid off unless the BB is holding a 10, the last K, or a QJ. Bet the flop, and hope the BB actually has something decent. If not, you win your 2 bets earlier.

[Absolute]

The river check is bad' but not horrible.You have to bet the turn and at least try to get value.

[Wilderness]

Briguy said:

You probably won't get paid off unless the BB is holding a 10, the last K, or a QJ.  Bet the flop, and hope the BB actually has something decent.  If not, you win your 2 bets earlier.

I think this about sums it up. If he's got no part of it, he'll be folding. If he's got a draw, then you want him to pay for it. He will bet if he's got a 10, or maybe the other K, but in those cases he'll call or raise your bet anyway so I think just betting out on the flop is the best way to do it.But most of the time you'll just be getting your little pot.

[KDawgCometh]

yeah, this was oneof those hands where after it was over I just thought, huh what was I thinking trying to get all fancy

[Briguy]

If he did call you even without a piece of the flop, then you were in hog heaven. Enjoy! :-)

[Emptyeye]

I have to go with the majority here (A little late) and say that you probably could've played it better (I would likely have bet the turn after he checked behind me on the flop), but unless he hit a piece of that flop (Ideally one 10, acceptably the case K), I don't think it would've changed how the hand ultimately ended up.

[holman3rd]

akishore said:

wrto is right on. anyone who checks a flop after raising pre-flop gives away their monster hand. lead out on the flop; if you win a baby pot, so what... you would have won the same baby pot like you did slowplaying. if anything, leading out on the flop would disguise your monster hand because too many people slowplay trips and boats.hope this helps,aseem

In a prior thread a few weeks ago, I was really on the short end of the stick in terms of debating other folks here about slowplaying.So, I guess I'll just do it again.The analysis from akishore is not really relevant in this 1/2 game, imo. It assumes that your opponent is actually paying attention to what you are doing, or trying to put you on a hand--this is a rarity at this level.The pot is tiny...my approach would have been to play this exactly the same way. I would hope my opponent had an ace (most players at this level are fish, and call with any ace, arguing, "but i had an ace").So, I check the flop, hoping an ace comes on the turn. Check the turn, hoping he connects with something on the river. I mean, seriously, what hands are you worried about here? Are we really worried about giving him free cards to beat us with quads or a higher full house? I say "no", and if he does draw out to one of those hands, so be it, he'll only take a small pot. Yes, it's probably unlikely that he'll improve enough to bet into me or call my river bet. But, i think the chances that he'll improve to a 2nd-best hand are higher than the chances he'll draw out to beat me.By the way, one argument I'll make for playing this fast is if the opponent is a calling station, which is quite possible at this level. In addition, it really is probably just best to bet out here BECAUSE it's a 1/2 game.Yep, just made an argument against my initial argument. Still, I'd probably slowplay here just to make things more interesting.

[holman3rd]

XXEddie said:

against only one player, you might as well bet if he doesnt have a T you wont get much and if he doesnt have the one other king you wont get much either, shoulda just bet the flop might have made him chase a draw of some sort

Another argument in favor of my suggestion for segregated strategy forums based on limit level (shameless plug ). Plenty of 1/2 players will give you plenty of action if the turn or river pairs them up, even if their pair is lower than a K. Then again, just play it fast b/c this is 1/2 and fancy play can get you in trouble. Sure, I think the chances of that happening here are low, but as a general rule, just play fast in 1/2.Sheesh..just changed my own mind.

[akishore]

to holman3rd:i think you misinterpreted my post. some points:1. i think it's reasonable to say that in a heads-up pot, your opponent will at least think whether you have a ten or not. granted, opponents at these leves rarely take the time to read hands, but in a heads-up pot on a board of KTT, it's not even reading hands that's important... it's just "should i call this bet?" i don't know if that makes sense. while you're right that you shouldn't play too fancy if your opponent is only thinking on a basic level, i think that leading out the flop would make any 1/2-level opponent worry less about you having a ten.2. i never stated anywhere that you'd be sacrificing your hand. i see that i wrote "giving away your monster hand", but by that, i meant you make it obvious that you hit the flop hard. for example, if someone raises pre-flop UTG, then checks when the flop comes AA4, i automatically scurry into check-call mode (an exxageration of course, but you get my point). it's just too obvious that they're trying to slowplay their hand.my point was that if he's going to call ANY bets, better to lead out on the flop. if he's not calling the flop bet, he probably wouldn't call the river bet either like in the actual hand. as others have also said, he might even be on a draw (flush or straight, etc.) and he should pay to draw. that DOES not mean that you should be worried about getting drawn out on, as the odds of that are very slim--BUT you should at least get some money in the process.aseem

[holman3rd]

akishore said:

to holman3rd:i think you misinterpreted my post. some points:1. i think it's reasonable to say that in a heads-up pot, your opponent will at least think whether you have a ten or not. granted, opponents at these leves rarely take the time to read hands, but in a heads-up pot on a board of KTT, it's not even reading hands that's important... it's just "should i call this bet?" i don't know if that makes sense. while you're right that you shouldn't play too fancy if your opponent is only thinking on a basic level, i think that leading out the flop would make any 1/2-level opponent worry less about you having a ten.2. i never stated anywhere that you'd be sacrificing your hand. i see that i wrote "giving away your monster hand", but by that, i meant you make it obvious that you hit the flop hard. for example, if someone raises pre-flop UTG, then checks when the flop comes AA4, i automatically scurry into check-call mode (an exxageration of course, but you get my point). it's just too obvious that they're trying to slowplay their hand.my point was that if he's going to call ANY bets, better to lead out on the flop. if he's not calling the flop bet, he probably wouldn't call the river bet either like in the actual hand. as others have also said, he might even be on a draw (flush or straight, etc.) and he should pay to draw. that DOES not mean that you should be worried about getting drawn out on, as the odds of that are very slim--BUT you should at least get some money in the process.aseem

My bad. Sorry about that.To your last point, though. Why would we want him to pay to draw to a flush or straight? Check the flop and hope he improves. Flush or straight still loses to a full house. But, he'll likely give good action if he does hit those 2nd-best hands.Edit--Perhaps I've misunderstood you again. You did indicate that you're not neccessarily worried about a draw. In fact, if he IS on a draw, he'll likely call your flop bet---I concede that point. But, if he's not on a draw, he'll just fold to your flop bet. Why not check and give him a free card and a chance to improve to a hand that WILL make it more likely that he will call your river bet?Sorry, long day.

[Smasharoo]

Checking the flop is fine, checking the turn is terrible.Here's why checking the flop is ok.Let's say you check the flop, and he hits some sort of miraculous card that makes a second best hand, say he has QQ and hits a Q, observant players will notice that you checked a monster on the flop and will be more likely to give you free cards later on when you raise in a 4 way pot with AK and miss the flop.Check-raising the flop accomplishes the same.Of course, if you're playing in a game full of unobservant players, bet, bet, bet. If he folds, fine.

[JETMECMAN]

Some times it helps to act like your scared of the K and make a bet that looks like youre trying to steal the blinds. Then if the other player has any part of it theyre going to come back over the top and then you smooth call em.

[MasterLJ]

I think consistancy comes in to play here. I like to play the same way whether I have it or I don't. Pay premium hands (as of course KK is) and bet it after the flop. Keep them guessing. If they fold, say it's in the name of consistancy. If they stay in, you win some money. If you find a nice cycle (or it finds you) they stay in when you got it, they fold when you don't and you take pots left and right.