60 replies to this topic

[keith crime]

belzer blew it by losing it and swearing which the R's love but really

as Bill Hicks mocked I find myself uncomfortable because I'm for the war but against our troops

I feel sorry for these kids - in the rare case that you have a guy who really wants to go over there like Pat Tillman he winds up disillusioned or dead or sadly both

the rest of these kids are 18 year olds who wanted to get school paid for - its hard to have any clue about geopolitics when your friends are dying and your leaders are hyping you up constantly about freeing the world from the devil




Richard Belzer was on Real time with Bill Maher last night. Also on the show was Florida Republican House member Ileana Ros-Lehtinen. The war in Iraq is always a hot topic on Real Time and below is a transcript of the debate between Belzer and Ros-Lehtinen.

Ros-Lehtinen: "Having been in Iraq a few times, and Afghanistan. Having met the troops. One on one, with free reign and asking them what they're doing. They are saying, 'We are proud of our mission. We know what we are doing over here. We don't want you guys in Washington to lose it over there. ' And there is a great sense of determination that what they are doing is making a difference. And yes, it has been an important mission, what we are doing. Come on!"

Belzer: "Yeah, come on. Our soldiers are... Our soldiers are now..."

Ros-Lehtinen: "A volunteer force! A volunteer force!"

Belzer: "Ok. No one is questioning the nobility and the honor that these men and women are serving and what they're doing. No one questions that. Now they're targets and they're not going... and their just protecting each other and they're in the middle of a civil war. So it's really not fair to have these people, who volunteered their lives to protect our nation under false pretenses, to now be targets... "

Ros-Lehtinen: "Ask them if it's fair. Wait a minute! My stepson son... Wait a minute! Wait a minute! My stepson son..."

Belzer: "That's bullshit, ask them! They don't read twenty newspapers a day. They're under the threat of death every minute. They're not the best people to ask about the war because they're going to die any second!"

Ros-Lehtinen: "You are talking about my stepson! My stepson! Who just finished, last week, eight months doury[sp], of duty!"

Belzer: "God bless your step son, but that doesn't mean he's a brilliant scholar about the war. Because he's there."

Ros-Lehtinen, pointing her finger at Belzer: "Oh! You are! You are though! Ok."

Belzer: "My life is not under threat."

Bill Maher: "The point I think he's trying to make is that a nineteen year old, who is in that army because he probably couldn't find other employment."

Ros-Lehtinen: "He's a college graduate. He's a Marine officer. He volunteered for the Marines."

Belzer: "He's an exception to the rule."

Ros-Lehtinen: "He's not the exception for the rule!"

Belzer: "You think everyone over there is a college graduate? They are nineteen and twenty year old kids who couldn't get a job."

Ros-Lehtinen: "You know that because you've been there and you've gone there."

Belzer: "What I don't ****ing read! Don't, don't do that?"

[turd ferguson]

As soon as I saw the title of this thread I knew you posted it. So, so, so strange.

[keith crime]

i make your day worthwhile - admit it - your my *****

[brvheart]

belzer blew it by losing it and swearing which the R's love but really

as Bill Hicks mocked I find myself uncomfortable because I'm for the war but against our troops

I feel sorry for these kids - in the rare case that you have a guy who really wants to go over there like Pat Tillman he winds up disillusioned or dead or sadly both

the rest of these kids are 18 year olds who wanted to get school paid for - its hard to have any clue about geopolitics when your friends are dying and your leaders are hyping you up constantly about freeing the world from the devil
Richard Belzer was on Real time with Bill Maher last night. Also on the show was Florida Republican House member Ileana Ros-Lehtinen. The war in Iraq is always a hot topic on Real Time and below is a transcript of the debate between Belzer and Ros-Lehtinen.

Ros-Lehtinen: "Having been in Iraq a few times, and Afghanistan. Having met the troops. One on one, with free reign and asking them what they're doing. They are saying, 'We are proud of our mission. We know what we are doing over here. We don't want you guys in Washington to lose it over there. ' And there is a great sense of determination that what they are doing is making a difference. And yes, it has been an important mission, what we are doing. Come on!"

Belzer: "Yeah, come on. Our soldiers are... Our soldiers are now..."

Ros-Lehtinen: "A volunteer force! A volunteer force!"

Belzer: "Ok. No one is questioning the nobility and the honor that these men and women are serving and what they're doing. No one questions that. Now they're targets and they're not going... and their just protecting each other and they're in the middle of a civil war. So it's really not fair to have these people, who volunteered their lives to protect our nation under false pretenses, to now be targets... "

Ros-Lehtinen: "Ask them if it's fair. Wait a minute! My stepson son... Wait a minute! Wait a minute! My stepson son..."

Belzer: "That's bullshit, ask them! They don't read twenty newspapers a day. They're under the threat of death every minute. They're not the best people to ask about the war because they're going to die any second!"

Ros-Lehtinen: "You are talking about my stepson! My stepson! Who just finished, last week, eight months doury[sp], of duty!"

Belzer: "God bless your step son, but that doesn't mean he's a brilliant scholar about the war. Because he's there."

Ros-Lehtinen, pointing her finger at Belzer: "Oh! You are! You are though! Ok."

Belzer: "My life is not under threat."

Bill Maher: "The point I think he's trying to make is that a nineteen year old, who is in that army because he probably couldn't find other employment."

Ros-Lehtinen: "He's a college graduate. He's a Marine officer. He volunteered for the Marines."

Belzer: "He's an exception to the rule."

Ros-Lehtinen: "He's not the exception for the rule!"

Belzer: "You think everyone over there is a college graduate? They are nineteen and twenty year old kids who couldn't get a job."

Ros-Lehtinen: "You know that because you've been there and you've gone there."

Belzer: "What I don't ****ing read! Don't, don't do that?"

...and so you agree with the guy ripping the troops for being stupid? Or am I confused.

[keith crime]

he didn't rip them for being stupid
way to use words to mislead

what he said was that

1. they as a whole probably were ill judged to understand what they had found themselves stuck in

and

2. their support for the war - whether it exists or not is pretty irrelevant to whether it is moral or not

If you were in the SS in world war 2 and watched your best friend die in a trench next to you - your hate for the allies would be understandable - it would also be a not very good argument for the right of the german cause

we have a history of having rich people send poor people to do our killling - it is sad and wrong

[ShakeZuma]

Well from the soldiers that I know personally that were over there, both Afghanastan and Iraq, they spoke of their pride in doing the job not because they were afraid, but because of what they were doing for the people there, and how these people responded to them and how much thanks they got from the citizens of the respective countries.

[ajs510]

And because you never know when you'll be on patrol and trip over a concrete bunker full of US currency.

And because you're allowed (encouraged?) to use explosives.

Or at least that's why I'd go...

[brvheart]

he didn't rip them for being stupid
way to use words to mislead

what he said was that

1. they as a whole probably were ill judged to understand what they had found themselves stuck in

The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed. That is the definition of ignorance according to Websters. According to Roget's thesaurus the following words are synonyms for ignorance: dumbness, mental incapacity, and simplicity. But I guess Webster's is misleading us.

As to your actual 'point', soldiers are actually there... what are you 20? 21? and you only spew crap you hear from Bill Maher and liberal professors. I'm not saying that one is right and one is wrong, but you don't know what's really going on in Iraq any more than you know what's going anywhere else. You are just doing what you are accusing them of doing. That is, spouting rhetoric.

2. their support for the war - whether it exists or not is pretty irrelevant to whether it is moral or not

If you were in the SS in world war 2 and watched your best friend die in a trench next to you - your hate for the allies would be understandable - it would also be a not very good argument for the right of the german cause

What? Who was talking about any of this crap other than you?

we have a history of having rich people send poor people to do our killling - it is sad and wrong

Fishing in Alaska is dangerous... I know all about it, because I saw a Discovery Channel show on it. Every year something like 20 people die. THOSE ****INGG EVIL BOAT OWNERS!!! HOW DARE RICH PEOPLE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF POOR PEOPLE BY GIVING THEM A JOB!!! DAMN AMERICA!!!! DAMN AMERICA!!!!



FYI: I like Bill Mahers show.

[keith crime]

ignorence is being unaware - stupid is being unable to be aware given the info

and yes i believe those guys haven't a clue about the bigger issues - they are scared for their lives and screwed because their college tuition is gonna cost them their lives

working on a fishing boat is hardly being sent over by fatcats to be targets to protect their oil

and yeah it sucks that some people have enough cash that they can pay people who don't to jeopardize their lives to survive -

What did George Bush ever do for his money - besides cheerlead at yale

Well from the soldiers that I know personally that were over there, both Afghanastan and Iraq, they spoke of their pride in doing the job not because they were afraid, but because of what they were doing for the people there, and how these people responded to them and how much thanks they got from the citizens of the respective countries.

which is no offense why they are being shot at


it has nothing to do with mahar it is simply where the dispute took place
maher dressed down belzer for swearing

[brvheart]

ignorence is being unaware - stupid is being unable to be aware given the info

and yes i believe those guys haven't a clue about the bigger issues - they are scared for their lives and screwed because their college tuition is gonna cost them their lives

working on a fishing boat is hardly being sent over by fatcats to be targets to protect their oil

and yeah it sucks that some people have enough cash that they can pay people who don't to jeopardize their lives to survive -

What did George Bush ever do for his money - besides cheerlead at yale
which is no offense why they are being shot at

I can't respond to this, since I would just be repeating my entire post.. Did you actually read it? Look again at the synonyms... Look again at the 'rich' boat owners.... look again at the entire thing... Both are jobs that people signed up for knowing the risks... no one took advantage of anyone. How do you people not understand this?

[keith crime]

people on fishing boats are taken advantage of by the inherent unfairness of a system that left them poor

yeah its a good job if your dad wasn't a corrupt oil baron - i wouldnt feel good about owning that business unless the fish were totally vital to the survival of the populace

dollars don't mean right

no one signs up for the military unless their economics need them too unless they are a complete and utter moron

oh and i'm 40 and i know it because i've read history and its been happening forever

it happened in south america and it happened in viet nam

ever heard of the gulf of tonkin resolution
find those wmds yet?

[ShakeZuma]

no one signs up for the military unless their economics need them too unless they are a complete and utter moron

are you kidding?

[keith crime]

are you kidding?

not in the least

there has to be a point in our evolution and i know you guys don't dig that term where we put the guns down and stop killing each other

you really want your son in the military?

the twin towers in not pearl harbor - it was sad, george bush wants you to think it is - but its not

ok wait i amend that - pat tillman signed up for good reasons - which he found out were untrue and then died

so then again yeah i hold to my original point

[ShakeZuma]

wow.

so it seems you disagree with any military whatsoever?

[keith crime]

i think it sucks that we have to have one
i think it sucks that poor people have to die to protect whatever it is they are protecting

did you know that you could get out of the civil war for like 200 bucks

its at best a necessary evil and one that is bourne by the disadvantaged in our society

[custom36]

wow.

so it seems you disagree with any military whatsoever?

Is this where you say "If we don't have a millitary, anybody can take us over."? Cause....that's a popular line with hawks....and it misses the point pretty badly...

i think it sucks that we have to have one
i think it sucks that poor people have to die to protect whatever it is they are protecting

did you know that you could get out of the civil war for like 200 bucks

its at best a necessary evil and one that is bourne by the disadvantaged in our society

This is pretty true. My roomate, who will be in Iraq in May, joined the millitary to pay for college. I have numerous friends that have done the same. They don't agree with what's going on, but they don't have much of a choice.

[ShakeZuma]

Is this where you say "If we don't have a millitary, anybody can take us over."? Cause....that's a popular line with hawks....and it misses the point pretty badly...

Pretty sure I didn't say that anywhere, but good try

[ajs510]

Perhaps you've never heard of ROTC? West Point? Annapolis? The Air Force Academy? Thousands upon thousands of kids filter through these programs and schools into the military every single year, and it isn't because they're too poor or too stupid to get a real job. It's because they've never wanted anything more in their lives than to join the military and serve this country.

[custom36]

Pretty sure I didn't say that anywhere, but good try

I never said you said it. I was asking if you were going to say it. Two very different statements.

[ShakeZuma]

I never said you said it. I was asking if you were going to say it. Two very different statements.

No. And it wasn't at all presumptuous or condescending to infer that I'm a "hawk".