14 replies to this topic

[iggymcfly]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button ($344.55)
SB ($199.60)
BB ($451.23)
Hero ($862.75)
MP ($130.22)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with [3s], [3c]. SB posts a blind of $1.
Hero calls $2, 2 folds, SB (poster) raises to $4, BB calls $2, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($12) [Js], [3d], [7c] (3 players)
SB bets $6, BB calls $6, Hero raises to $20, SB calls $14, BB raises to $86.47



Note the large stack sizes, the uncoordinated board and the lack of reasonable two pair combinations available.

[macphec]

It would be a tough fold. You need to give us some reads on BB here.

You'd have to put him on exactly a set of 7's. He would normally reraise JJ pf?

He doesnt trap with overpairs?

Any info would be useful.

I'd have to have one strong read to fold this.

[iggymcfly]

He was relatively solid, but not above making an occasional move. I hadn't really played long enough to say definitively that he does or doesn't trap with overpairs though.

The thing that really got to me is that as I put all my money in the pot, I really had no expectation that I'd win it. I just thought, "OK, here goes all my money to the better set." Honestly, I can't imagine a hand that would be played that way other than a better set.

To smooth-call and then make a large reraise against a strong raiser, it just screams monster.

[macphec]

He was relatively solid, but not above making an occasional move. I hadn't really played long enough to say definitively that he does or doesn't trap with overpairs though.

The thing that really got to me is that as I put all my money in the pot, I really had no expectation that I'd win it. I just thought, "OK, here goes all my money to the better set." Honestly, I can't imagine a hand that would be played that way other than a better set.

To smooth-call and then make a large reraise against a strong raiser, it just screams monster.

Exactly, I mean what else can he have besides 77 with that line?! I'm not sure if I'd push the flop or not but All the $$'s going in on the turn at least.

You have to pay 77 off here.

[iggymcfly]

Yeah, that's what happened. I called the flop. He bet $150 on the turn, and I said "what the hell, I guess I'm losing all my money" and pushed.

I was up enough that it didn't actually hurt me that much, but the frustrating part was just that I knew I was beat and put my stack in anyway.

Considering that my tendency is to make big calls when I shouldn't rather than make big laydowns anyway, I think I'm going to completely erase those cute little rules like "never fold a set" from my mind altogether.

From now on, I'm just going with my intuition and if I call off 200 big blinds, it's going to be because I decided it was the right move, not because a rule that's quoted on the Interweb told me I had to.

[macphec]

Yeah, that's what happened. I called the flop. He bet $150 on the turn, and I said "what the hell, I guess I'm losing all my money" and pushed.

I was up enough that it didn't actually hurt me that much, but the frustrating part was just that I knew I was beat and put my stack in anyway.

Considering that my tendency is to make big calls when I shouldn't rather than make big laydowns anyway, I think I'm going to completely erase those cute little rules like "never fold a set" from my mind altogether.

From now on, I'm just going with my intuition and if I call off 200 big blinds, it's going to be because I decided it was the right move, not because a rule that's quoted on the Interweb told me I had to.

That sucks but set over set is so hard to get away from on a dry board like that. I hate those so called "poker rules". I have laid down sets before but on a lot scarier board than that.

[Donkey]

That sucks but set over set is so hard to get away from on a dry board like that. I hate those so called "poker rules". I have laid down sets before but on a lot scarier board than that.

I don't think you can lay it down. When the big blind called he was getting decent pot/implied odds and might have called with anything. He COULD have had those trips, but he might have flopped 2 pair. Heck, even solid seeming players can have blowups, not really be as solid as you think, or think your making a play and push an AJ way way too far (who hasn't had a bad run of cards or felt he was getting pushed around and push with the chorus "were not gonna take it" chiming in their heads). Also, this is the internet and sometimes anything can happen. The key is that you don't know, you don't have enough info and you have to call. Then again i am a donkey.

[CobaltBlue]

iggy, poster could easily have J7s or J3s here in the BB against a min-raise. That said, if you suspect an overset is likely, you could've always gone into call down mode. It's kinda weak, but you might not have completely doubled him up.

On this note, I had a strange hand the other day. At 3/6, UTG had limped, it folded to me in the SB and I limped with 3s. The BB checked. I flopped a set of threes on a board of K74 w/ a flush a draw. I bet out. BB called. UTG raised. I called. BB called. On the turn, Q popped off. I checked, BB checked, UTG bet, I check-raised, BB smooth-called, UTG folded. On the river, the pot was $500. The flush draw came in with a 6. I checked and expected the BB to push in with his last $230. He checked and flipped over 77 for the overset. He played it absolutely bizarrely, and I was thankful for not losing another $200.

[KowboyKoop]

iggy, poster could easily have J7s or J3s here in the BB against a min-raise. That said, if you suspect an overset is likely, you could've always gone into call down mode. It's kinda weak, but you might not have completely doubled him up.

On this note, I had a strange hand the other day. At 3/6, UTG had limped, it folded to me in the SB and I limped with 3s. The BB checked. I flopped a set of threes on a board of K74 w/ a flush a draw. I bet out. BB called. UTG raised. I called. BB called. On the turn, Q popped off. I checked, BB checked, UTG bet, I check-raised, BB smooth-called, UTG folded. On the river, the pot was $500. The flush draw came in with a 6. I checked and expected the BB to push in with his last $230. He checked and flipped over 77 for the overset. He played it absolutely bizarrely, and I was thankful for not losing another $200.

You flopped a set of 3s on a board of K-7-4 !?!?!??! Whoa...you must be the awesomest player of all time!!!

[CobaltBlue]

You flopped a set of 3s on a board of K-7-4 !?!?!??! Whoa...you must be the awesomest player of all time!!!

Change that to set of 4s. =P

[iggymcfly]

iggy, poster could easily have J7s or J3s here in the BB against a min-raise. That said, if you suspect an overset is likely, you could've always gone into call down mode. It's kinda weak, but you might not have completely doubled him up.

I had no notion of an overset whatsoever until he call/reraised to four and a half times my raise. Then, I tried to go into call down mode, but he bet so much on the turn, that it was obvious all the money was getting in if he had 77, so I just put it in for him.

And J7 was the hand I was telling myself that he might have, and really about the only hand I could possibly beat in that situation. If I was making a hand range, it would be something like:

77: 60%
JJ: 15%
J7: 20%
Terribly misplayed hand worse than J7: 5%

[CobaltBlue]

Well, he's put in $230 of his about $450...and the pot's going to be about that big, but there's a chance that he might try to value bet the river with less than an all-in.

[BIG_L_RIP]

it'd be a good lay. Every time I know I'm oversetted, I still manage to click call.



Last night slightly different however. Set of 8s vs set of K. Wasn't laying that no matter what. God I hate online poker.

[DrawingDeadInDM]

..how did I miss this? This is an exceptional question. We need more of these.

I don't think you've quite gained enough information yet. It's very likely that it's not JJ--assuming he would've put in a good sized raise preflop with JJ. The only hand I'm worried about with this flop is 77, as it's a very real possibility from the BB, facing a small raise. I take it to 200 and if he pushes, I've gotta fold, I think. J7 out of the BB is not at all unlikely. If he's putting in ANOTHER raise on that flop, then he almost certainly has you beat. But I'm not just laying this down without considering any read I might have.

[gaddyjr]

Because I think J7 is a huge possibility, I think you have to reraise on this flop. I would make it about $180 and see what he does. If he pushes, I would seriously think about laying this down. But, like has been above, JJ is not a legitimate possibility, so 77 is all you have to worry about.

Set over set is a tough situation, and it happens to the best of us. Don't let it get you down as no one can criticize you for going all the way on this one.