175 replies to this topic

[violaman]

Mercury 69, here are a couple articles from publications that even the staunchest right wingers will read.washington times articlefox news articleand some from more liberal papers.washpost articlenytimes articleI encourage you and Balloon guy to consider each of these and formulate your own opinion, as these are news articles. I observed that on the fox news site i had to look to the fourth or fifth column in the non-headline news section whereas all other publications thought this story worthy of a headline. The washington times article vindicates Bush by saying that the information leaked wasn't classified because if Bush released it then its classification level changes. You can take that argument in the news column for what it is worth. I think that regardless of where you fall on the political ideaology spectrum you can appreciate comparative analysis in forming your opinions. If you would rather just read one source of news you are more than lazy, you are too ignorant to form comprehensive and original opinions. Good luck in your study.

[Farnan]

While i understand the premise that if GWB leaks the information, it isn't classified, to focus on this one point is to lose the forest for the trees.1. Bush KNEW the entire time what was going on with this leak. Every time he spoke about the issue, HE LIED in saying he didn't know what was going on. How this President still has ANY credibility with some people is beyond me.2. This shows (if it is confirmed that of the information authorized to be released included Plame's name) Bush had a hand in RUINING a persons career for political gain. That is complete and utter bullshit that he would jeopardize the "assets" (as called by the CIA-such as contacts, informants, etc.) developed by Plame during her career as a CIA officer in the area of WMD all for a political vendetta. It shows he puts politics before the country.3. This shows yet another instance of GWB concious knowledge of the efforts to suppress anyone willing to bring forth information that contradicts his worthless, hyped "evidence" he offered in support going to war. He didn't care what the truth was. He just wanted to go to war.All of this concentrated talk on whether the information was declassified by GWB's approval is a complete smokescreen. It allows those who blindly support him to ignore all of the other implications.

[Steppin Razor]

Balloon guy, on Wednesday, April 5th, 2006, 2:51 PM, said:

The flaw is the thought that greedy power hungry people would set in motion plans that will almost always come into fruition decades, or generations later. Why? If you don't mind manipulating governments you can accomplish money goals in weeks, not decades.

Are you kidding me? The government can't accomplish anything in weeks. Manipulating an entire government (and it's people mind you) only takes weeks? Where did you learn how to do that?

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Half of congress is bought and sold, both sides. Companies aleady are wealthy beyond comprehension, and money is made by handshakes across poitical aisels everyday. Study currancy trading if you want to see why corruption is so huge that noone will control it.

And the other half of Congress is currently in negotiations. What's your point? The fact that this war is the most subcontracted in history is a fact that doesn't change because Congressmen take bribes.Are you suggesting that because companies make money by handshakes across political aisles that they are happy with that and won't try to make deals with the President?

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With your lines of thought, they set up Clinton to be their "Idiot" because Bin Laden almost took out the WTC when Bill was in charge. I guess Greenspan snuck into the Ryder truck and deluted the ammonia enough to prevent the explosion from bringing down the WTC, so they could get Bush elected and 'run' the country. First they had to get Ma Barker to ruin the Texas economy, make it easy for Bush to fix it ( Rumsfeld, Cheney, and greenspan weren't on his staff while Gov of Texas) Then get Jeb elected in Florida, convince the Democrat controlled election board of Palm Beach County to okay a confusing ballot, make sure the Supreme court was filled with people that would vote to accept the Florida Supreme Court's decision. Man they were some busy guys. Especially since they did this with people that NEVER became upset or dissatisfied enough to rat them out.

What the heck are you talking about? They can't set up Clinton to be their idiot because he's a democrat. And he's no idiot. A b*stard maybe, but no idiot. The WTC bombing didn't get Bush elected. Some dubious ballot 'counting' did. And Bush wasn't elected, he was appointed by the Supreme Court's decision regarding said ballots.It seems to me you are apparently saying that it is impossible for someone to formulate a plan and then try to implement it when the time is right.

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Dude, tin foil hats are just two steps away. It's okay to disagree with Bush, not like his policies, and disagrees with his philosophy, without trying to read so much into his actions.Like Freud said: "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"

Sometimes it's hard for me to realize how little most people know about government. Not that I'm an expert, but a life long residency in DC and a political science major for part of my college years have given me some insight."... without trying to read so much into his actions." is how the government works. They get away with so much because of that. You have to read into actions, my friend. Nothing is what it appears to be or sounds like. There are layers upon layers upon layers and digging into that just gets you to the surface. Example: The first Gulf War almost didn't happen until China was granted MFN status and the US waited until Yemen cycled out of the UN Security Council. Nothing in government is as simple as it looks. If you want to call it a conspiracy theory, go ahead. But let me tell you, people who aspire to wielding the power of the government don't do it without an extreme ambition and arrogance of the rightness of their own beliefs (which is arguably a necessity to govern effectively). They don't land in the White House off and on for over 30 years (Nixon, Ford, elder Bush administrations) and not have an agenda for the country.Go ahead and bury your head in the sand if you want.FYI, though I'm sure you've already written me off as a liberal wacko, I voted for Bush Sr. in '91.

[Trail Boss Mitch]

Steppin Razor, on Friday, April 7th, 2006, 11:37 AM, said:

Are you kidding me? The government can't accomplish anything in weeks. Manipulating an entire government (and it's people mind you) only takes weeks? Where did you learn how to do that?And the other half of Congress is currently in negotiations. What's your point? The fact that this war is the most subcontracted in history is a fact that doesn't change because Congressmen take bribes.Are you suggesting that because companies make money by handshakes across political aisles that they are happy with that and won't try to make deals with the President? What the heck are you talking about? They can't set up Clinton to be their idiot because he's a democrat. And he's no idiot. A b*stard maybe, but no idiot. The WTC bombing didn't get Bush elected. Some dubious ballot 'counting' did. And Bush wasn't elected, he was appointed by the Supreme Court's decision regarding said ballots.It seems to me you are apparently saying that it is impossible for someone to formulate a plan and then try to implement it when the time is right.Sometimes it's hard for me to realize how little most people know about government. Not that I'm an expert, but a life long residency in DC and a political science major for part of my college years have given me some insight."... without trying to read so much into his actions." is how the government works. They get away with so much because of that. You have to read into actions, my friend. Nothing is what it appears to be or sounds like. There are layers upon layers upon layers and digging into that just gets you to the surface. Example: The first Gulf War almost didn't happen until China was granted MFN status and the US waited until Yemen cycled out of the UN Security Council. Nothing in government is as simple as it looks. If you want to call it a conspiracy theory, go ahead. But let me tell you, people who aspire to wielding the power of the government don't do it without an extreme ambition and arrogance of the rightness of their own beliefs (which is arguably a necessity to govern effectively). They don't land in the White House off and on for over 30 years (Nixon, Ford, elder Bush administrations) and not have an agenda for the country.Go ahead and bury your head in the sand if you want.FYI, though I'm sure you've already written me off as a liberal wacko, I voted for Bush Sr. in '91.

Yada yada yada....when will this thread end? Here is my suggestion for Razor and others who are so passionate about government:1. GET ELECTED! Run for public office and raise money like everyone else you're so passionately bad-mouthing. Politicians may be corrupt, but at least they have taken the time and effort to actually get votes and run for office.2. GET A WEB SITE! Stop using poker sites to talk politics. Get your own damn web site and forum. Geez...this is ridiculous.3. GET A LIFE! You obviously have way too much time on your hands.

[Balloon guy]

Maipulation of government for financial gains isn't difficult, for focused purposes. That's the point.The war is subcontracted...SO WHAT?Because we have streamlined and subcontract most things makes what difference? Laundry, chow and transportation is subcontracted in the military. In times of war and peace.Halliburton being one of the few companies in existance that can rebuild Iraq in timeframe doesn't make them part of some plan. Even if Cheney used to work there. This is also the first time we rebuilt a nation after defeating it in this short of a time frame. Japan and Germany took a little longer then 3 years to rebuild. Clinton reference was based on inferance that Cheney Rumsfeld etc. were putting plans to have this war 20 years ago. Which would mean they needed a disaster like WTC, which was first tried under Clinton. If their plan was to topple WTC to set their plans in motion, then they first tried it under CLinton. Did you read the post I was responding to? It wasn't that hard to follow.Your quote "Nothing is what it appears to be" Means that you get to read anything you want to into anything that happens? That's the point of the Freud quote. Sometimes you read too much into things and miss the fact that it could actully just be what it is.UN got manipulated? You mean like in GW1 when the woman came in and told them about the babies being thrown out of their incubators in hospital, which proved to be lies, she wasn't even in Iraq. So sometimes the war gets 'sold' to the American people? Happened then, happened now.Will happen again. Funny how you don't have a problem with the bribes being taken by UN officials in Food for Oil, doesn't come into you anti war people's thoughts at all bout UN's involvement in Iraq war.Poli Sci majors are the most narrow minded people I've ever met. as a rule. You think because you live in DC and have a PS degree you get to read Bush's actions with more accuracy then me? Because? Here's a surprise, I voted for Bush both times and I still support him. You didn't vote for Bush either time and don't support him. Wow, who would have thought?And why does Bush's 'Agenda' have to be selfish, financial and evil motives? Is it impossible that like his Father, he is trying to do the right thing no matter what others think. 9-11 changed the way we have to look at the world. It would be wonderful to go back to 1980 when we only had to worry about taxes, but we don't get to. The enemy started this war. Bush is fighting it by being pro-active. Remember, that's the thing he was accused of not being before 9-11, which if he had been supposedly the towers would not have fallen and Bin Hiding would have changed his ways and joined People Helping People.But now he is pro-active, and everyone is calling him a war monger. 4 years of no attacks on America but that was because the terrorist couldn't use their frequent flyer miles to get cheap enough seats, so they are saving up and then they will attack again. So if he taps phones to stop terrorist attaks, he's evil and wants to create a facsist state. and if he doesn't stop terrorist attacks, then he's evil and wants to start a war. You guys have a nice racket going, no matter what, Bush is evil and only the Democrats can save us.And for a poly sci major you are dense if you think the SC ruling was a choosing of a president. They upheld the Florida SC ruling, which ruled that the Florida Constitution OVERRULED the democrats desire to recount until they got the correct number of votes for Algore. Very cut and dried. The democrats tried to steal an election, lost, and now cry foul. 6 years later and you guys are still whining. Funny how the democrats getting the 15,000 or so military votes thrown out didn't raise one cry of 'disenfranchisement' from the left. But a 'confusing' ballot that the democrat controlled election board approved suddenly becomes the rallying cry for why Bush stole an election. Also ignored is the full recount done by 3 major news agancies that had Bush for the FOURTH recount, that's Algore 0 Bush 4.Last month in Palm Beach county they had an election with like 500 votes, and they screwed that up and gave the seat to the wrong person. That's the left's poster child for voter fraud.Newsflash, Algore lost, a VP from a popular president, with a good economy. He couldn't even carry his home state of Tenn. He lost because he is an idiot with his charm in a lockbox, and his people focused too much attention on popular votes in California and New York and not enough on the electoral college needs. Don't blame the SC on a badly run campaing.If Perot didn't run in 92 and 96, Clinton wouldn't ever have been President, and he and Hillary could finally get that divorce they both want so bad. We Rebuplicans got over it, now it's your turn.FYI, though I'm sure you've already written me off as a rightwing wacko, I voted for Bush Sr. in '91 also.

[Eclypse]

Balloon guy, on Friday, April 7th, 2006, 11:51 AM, said:

Maipulation of government for financial gains isn't difficult, for focused purposes. That's the point.The war is subcontracted...SO WHAT?Because we have streamlined and subcontract most things makes what difference? Laundry, chow and transportation is subcontracted in the military. In times of war and peace.Halliburton being one of the few companies in existance that can rebuild Iraq in timeframe doesn't make them part of some plan. Even if Cheney used to work there. This is also the first time we rebuilt a nation after defeating it in this short of a time frame. Japan and Germany took a little longer then 3 years to rebuild. Clinton reference was based on inferance that Cheney Rumsfeld etc. were putting plans to have this war 20 years ago. Which would mean they needed a disaster like WTC, which was first tried under Clinton. If their plan was to topple WTC to set their plans in motion, then they first tried it under CLinton. Did you read the post I was responding to? It wasn't that hard to follow.Your quote "Nothing is what it appears to be" Means that you get to read anything you want to into anything that happens? That's the point of the Freud quote. Sometimes you read too much into things and miss the fact that it could actully just be what it is.UN got manipulated? You mean like in GW1 when the woman came in and told them about the babies being thrown out of their incubators in hospital, which proved to be lies, she wasn't even in Iraq. So sometimes the war gets 'sold' to the American people? Happened then, happened now.Will happen again. Funny how you don't have a problem with the bribes being taken by UN officials in Food for Oil, doesn't come into you anti war people's thoughts at all bout UN's involvement in Iraq war.Poli Sci majors are the most narrow minded people I've ever met. as a rule. You think because you live in DC and have a PS degree you get to read Bush's actions with more accuracy then me? Because? Here's a surprise, I voted for Bush both times and I still support him. You didn't vote for Bush either time and don't support him. Wow, who would have thought?And why does Bush's 'Agenda' have to be selfish, financial and evil motives? Is it impossible that like his Father, he is trying to do the right thing no matter what others think. 9-11 changed the way we have to look at the world. It would be wonderful to go back to 1980 when we only had to worry about taxes, but we don't get to. The enemy started this war. Bush is fighting it by being pro-active. Remember, that's the thing he was accused of not being before 9-11, which if he had been supposedly the towers would not have fallen and Bin Hiding would have changed his ways and joined People Helping People.But now he is pro-active, and everyone is calling him a war monger. 4 years of no attacks on America but that was because the terrorist couldn't use their frequent flyer miles to get cheap enough seats, so they are saving up and then they will attack again. So if he taps phones to stop terrorist attaks, he's evil and wants to create a facsist state. and if he doesn't stop terrorist attacks, then he's evil and wants to start a war. You guys have a nice racket going, no matter what, Bush is evil and only the Democrats can save us.And for a poly sci major you are dense if you think the SC ruling was a choosing of a president. They upheld the Florida SC ruling, which ruled that the Florida Constitution OVERRULED the democrats desire to recount until they got the correct number of votes for Algore. Very cut and dried. The democrats tried to steal an election, lost, and now cry foul. 6 years later and you guys are still whining. Funny how the democrats getting the 15,000 or so military votes thrown out didn't raise one cry of 'disenfranchisement' from the left. But a 'confusing' ballot that the democrat controlled election board approved suddenly becomes the rallying cry for why Bush stole an election. Also ignored is the full recount done by 3 major news agancies that had Bush for the FOURTH recount, that's Algore 0 Bush 4.Last month in Palm Beach county they had an election with like 500 votes, and they screwed that up and gave the seat to the wrong person. That's the left's poster child for voter fraud.Newsflash, Algore lost, a VP from a popular president, with a good economy. He couldn't even carry his home state of Tenn. He lost because he is an idiot with his charm in a lockbox, and his people focused too much attention on popular votes in California and New York and not enough on the electoral college needs. Don't blame the SC on a badly run campaing.If Perot didn't run in 92 and 96, Clinton wouldn't ever have been President, and he and Hillary could finally get that divorce they both want so bad. We Rebuplicans got over it, now it's your turn.FYI, though I'm sure you've already written me off as a rightwing wacko, I voted for Bush Sr. in '91 also.

This post reads like more of a "tinfoil-hat conspiracy" than the 9/11 video.Slow down a little Balloon Guy. Try and take one thing at a time and keep it simple. And don't go off on on these crazy tangents. You will find that you will have a better chance of convincing people that way.Most of what you say is crap, so when you run it all together like this it takes away from the one or two genuine arguments you do make, and just makes you look like a crackpot.

[Farnan]

Trail Boss Mitch, on Friday, April 7th, 2006, 10:47 AM, said:

Yada yada yada....when will this thread end? Here is my suggestion for Razor and others who are so passionate about government:1. GET ELECTED! Run for public office and raise money like everyone else you're so passionately bad-mouthing. Politicians may be corrupt, but at least they have taken the time and effort to actually get votes and run for office.

Don't have the money, the political connections (if you only knew what went on in local politics--wait, you obviously don't if you think it is as simple as that) nor the ability to comprimise my beliefs in order to have any particular political party or donor to stand behind me. In other words, i think for myself--and political parties, politicians and donors don't like that.

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2. GET A WEB SITE! Stop using poker sites to talk politics. Get your own damn web site and forum. Geez...this is ridiculous.

Nah, but thanks for the suggestion. See, i could care less about someone's recent bad beat or bragging about how many winning sessions they've had or reading a thread where 10 of the usual suspects jump all over the OP by being complete ass_holes. And do you know what i do when i come across something like that? I SKIP IT. The only problem with this thread is that it belongs in the "general off topic area"---something the mods could have taken care of a long time ago. As far as insulating yourself from people who disagree with Bush, well, you're in for a long 3 years. I suggest ear plugs and a blindfold because an awful lot of people in this country don't like what is going on.

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3. GET A LIFE! You obviously have way too much time on your hands.

I have a great life, actually. Nice job, great friends, fun hobbies and live in an interesting world that we all can discuss. It is a good thing i'm not someone who is completely one-dimensional and pisses himself every time i'm exposed to something i disagree with on a poker forum. Worse yet, be someone who overlooks and accepts governmental officials taking advantage of political aloofness by running this country into the ground for the sake of power and greed. T'would be a sad, boring and pathetic life. But hey--to each their own.Daniel: Hi.

[Steppin Razor]

Balloon guy said:

Maipulation of government for financial gains isn't difficult, for focused purposes. That's the point.The war is subcontracted...SO WHAT?Because we have streamlined and subcontract most things makes what difference? Laundry, chow and transportation is subcontracted in the military. In times of war and peace.Halliburton being one of the few companies in existance that can rebuild Iraq in timeframe doesn't make them part of some plan. Even if Cheney used to work there. This is also the first time we rebuilt a nation after defeating it in this short of a time frame. Japan and Germany took a little longer then 3 years to rebuild.

Working backwards, Halliburton is not the only company that can do the various jobs they have contracts for, but that's not my point in any case. There's such a blend between the Pentagon and it's various contractors that all of those companies have connections.Regarding being part of some sort of plan, I don't see how it could be any other way, unless you are suggesting that the administration started a war with no plans. Make up your mind, either they knew what they were doing or they didn't.So what if the war is subcontracted? That opens a Pandora's Box. You increase the likelihood and various means that corporations can defraud you of your tax dollars, and risk American lives. Don't you care about our soldiers? Because we've seen enough of corporate greed and fraud to be unsurprised if it turns out that say, inadequate body armor was intentional so they could sell twice as many vests (not saying that happened, saying it's a possibility).Any corporation has an obligation to its share holders to increase its profits. How big of a leap is it to think that they may want an administration to start hostilities every 10-15 years or so? Say like, WWII to Korea to Vietnam to Persian Gulf to Iraq: Part Deux...Or that they will build Humvees designed to fall apart every 3 years so the government has to keep buying new ones - the strategy of automotive makers in this country up until the 1990's?

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Clinton reference was based on inferance that Cheney Rumsfeld etc. were putting plans to have this war 20 years ago. Which would mean they needed a disaster like WTC, which was first tried under Clinton. If their plan was to topple WTC to set their plans in motion, then they first tried it under CLinton. Did you read the post I was responding to? It wasn't that hard to follow.

You misunderstood. I pointed out that the idea of an inadequate President with an increasingly powerful VP was an idea thought up by the people who now have exactly that. At the time they came up with the idea, the plan was to attempt to create a market as free as possible. However, these same guys later wanted to continue Desert Storm but couldn't, and once again now they have exactly that.

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Your quote "Nothing is what it appears to be" Means that you get to read anything you want to into anything that happens? That's the point of the Freud quote. Sometimes you read too much into things and miss the fact that it could actully just be what it is.

We'll just have to disagree on that. In politics, nothing is actually just what it is. After all the case studies and reviews that I've done about Desert Storm, I would bet that if I presented all the information I've learned to GH Bush, he'd laugh at how little I knew.

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UN got manipulated? You mean like in GW1 when the woman came in and told them about the babies being thrown out of their incubators in hospital, which proved to be lies, she wasn't even in Iraq. So sometimes the war gets 'sold' to the American people? Happened then, happened now.Will happen again. Funny how you don't have a problem with the bribes being taken by UN officials in Food for Oil, doesn't come into you anti war people's thoughts at all bout UN's involvement in Iraq war.

You lost me. Where did I say anything about bribes, food or oil? Where did I say the UN was manipulated? That's not manipulation, that was just a description of the disparity between what goes on and what most people know. That's just how it works.

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Poli Sci majors are the most narrow minded people I've ever met. as a rule. You think because you live in DC and have a PS degree you get to read Bush's actions with more accuracy then me? Because? Here's a surprise, I voted for Bush both times and I still support him. You didn't vote for Bush either time and don't support him. Wow, who would have thought?

I didn't say I had a Poli Sci degree. I said I was a Poli Sci major for part of my college years. You can call me narrow minded if you want though.I can understand why you don't think living in DC is any qualification for knowledge. Living in DC is hard to describe to someone who hasn't. The entire metropolitan area lives on politics. I've just recently moved to Ohio, and half the stuff I thought everybody knew, people seem surprised when I talk about it.

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And why does Bush's 'Agenda' have to be selfish, financial and evil motives?

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck...

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Is it impossible that like his Father, he is trying to do the right thing no matter what others think. 9-11 changed the way we have to look at the world. It would be wonderful to go back to 1980 when we only had to worry about taxes, but we don't get to.

I wouldn't put what his father did re: Desert Storm that way, but yes it is impossible he is doing what hi dad did. Back in 1980, all these guys were on our payroll: Saddam, Osama, etc., etc..

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4 years of no attacks on America but that was because the terrorist couldn't use their frequent flyer miles to get cheap enough seats, so they are saving up and then they will attack again.

You need to listen to your administration. They have said another attack is inevitable.

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So if he taps phones to stop terrorist attaks, he's evil and wants to create a facsist state. and if he doesn't stop terrorist attacks, then he's evil and wants to start a war. You guys have a nice racket going, no matter what, Bush is evil and only the Democrats can save us.

When Americans trade the very freedoms that made this country for a little extra security, we all lose, and the terrorists win. They win because we start comprising beliefs in exchange for them not hurting us. It is wrong to compromise our ideals.Terrorists are the new commies. There always has to be a Big Bad out there to manipulate the herd. In the '80's there was a popular song questioning whether Russians love their children, like they are some kind of demon. How such extreme concepts of our enemies make it into general public acceptance is unnerving to see.BTW, I don't know where you get the idea that I'm a Democrat. IMO, Bush is the Republican Clinton. There, I just p*ssed off both sides with one sentence. Just because we have a two party system doesn't mean I have to pick one of them. It's unfortunate, but you're going to have to find another way to dismiss me instead of, 'Oh yeah, well you're a Democrat.'

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And for a poly sci major you are dense if you think the SC ruling was a choosing of a president. They upheld the Florida SC ruling, which ruled that the Florida Constitution OVERRULED the democrats desire to recount until they got the correct number of votes for Algore. Very cut and dried.

I'm not dense, it's exactly what happened. Vote counting was in dispute. If it had been reversed and Al Gore's count was higher, then I'd say Al Gore was appointed president. It is not the Supreme Court's purview to rule on what counts as a vote, plain and simple.The only solution that would make sense would be to have a re vote in the state of Florida. That way, every single citizen who sat on his butt, D or R, would vote along with every citizen who did. Why, that's perfect American 'democracy' in action. Everybody votes.Republicans didn't get over Clinton winning. They attacked him relentlessly for 8 years.

[Steppin Razor]

Trail Boss Mitch, on Friday, April 7th, 2006, 10:47 AM, said:

Yada yada yada....when will this thread end? Here is my suggestion for Razor and others who are so passionate about government:1. GET ELECTED! Run for public office and raise money like everyone else you're so passionately bad-mouthing. Politicians may be corrupt, but at least they have taken the time and effort to actually get votes and run for office.2. GET A WEB SITE! Stop using poker sites to talk politics. Get your own damn web site and forum. Geez...this is ridiculous.3. GET A LIFE! You obviously have way too much time on your hands.

Don't like it, don't read it.BTW, 1. is not so easy as Ralph Nader proved. There are too many laws designed to stop anyone not a Dem or Rep from even getting on the ballot2. We're just talking here. If FCP pulls the thread because it's not poker related, no skin off my hide. But it's here, and I'll chat if I want to, or until the site asks me not to.3. Bite me. Wait, that should be 1. And 2.

[XX44466XX]

I don't care what anybody has to say, I sure didn't vote for him.

[Balloon guy]

Steppin Razor, on Friday, April 7th, 2006, 2:19 PM, said:

I'm not dense, it's exactly what happened. Vote counting was in dispute. If it had been reversed and Al Gore's count was higher, then I'd say Al Gore was appointed president. It is not the Supreme Court's purview to rule on what counts as a vote, plain and simple.The only solution that would make sense would be to have a re vote in the state of Florida. That way, every single citizen who sat on his butt, D or R, would vote along with every citizen who did. Why, that's perfect American 'democracy' in action. Everybody votes.Republicans didn't get over Clinton winning. They attacked him relentlessly for 8 years.

Well this response was much more level headed, the last one got me on a tangent. Sorry.You know what I hate most about the I hate Bush I hate Clinton themes, they make us forget that ultimately they are Both pretty much dirtbags out for themselves no matter what they do to the country.I support the Pres, the war, and the wire tappings. In WWII we had rationing, internments and cencorship of mail, and the country returned to normal. The slippery slope argument isn't valid to me.I will agree to disagree with you, because you moved to my home state of Ohio, so you can't be all bad.Sorry if I was a little bit of a jerk in the last post. But if you still want to argue the voting issues of Florida I would love to change your mind.

Eclypse, on Friday, April 7th, 2006, 12:17 PM, said:

This post reads like more of a "tinfoil-hat conspiracy" than the 9/11 video.Slow down a little Balloon Guy. Try and take one thing at a time and keep it simple. And don't go off on on these crazy tangents. You will find that you will have a better chance of convincing people that way.Most of what you say is crap, so when you run it all together like this it takes away from the one or two genuine arguments you do make, and just makes you look like a crackpot.

Yea, bit off alot there and didn't use quotes to respond, making the whole thing too long winded and hard to follow.Which thing was crap?

[nutzbuster]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ..........cough, ughmm...mmm...oh, hi.Who's the president again?oh yeah.When's the next election???oh, right, 2+ years. guess there's nothing we can do then.oh well. NIGHT!ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...........

[Steppin Razor]

Balloon guy, on Saturday, April 8th, 2006, 12:37 AM, said:

Sorry if I was a little bit of a jerk in the last post.

No worries, I don't offend easily. And if I am offended, I don't mind.I see the War on Terror more like the War on Drugs than WWII.The FL voting thing has not good answer, but I don't like the Supreme Court deciding a Presidency. That's not their job, and it blurs the line of checks and balances.

[Balloon guy]

Steppin Razor, on Saturday, April 8th, 2006, 2:31 PM, said:

The FL voting thing has not good answer, but I don't like the Supreme Court deciding a Presidency. That's not their job, and it blurs the line of checks and balances.

But they were forced in by Algore not accepting he lost every recount. So they were a perfect check against the democrats attempts to asurp the legitimate authority of the Florida Constitution. They were required to certify the results by such and such a date, got an extension, another one, and still a 3rd, and asked for a fourth. Sec State for Florida said no, they went to court to try to make Sec State ignore Fl Cons., and got slapped. Nobody appointed Bush, and nobody successfully stole an election.Funny thing to me was how the fact that Buchanan got 15,000 votes in the Palm Beach district, which was by factor of 10 too many votes compared with other districts, and his was the hole you punched if yo didn't follow the lines, but instead just poked 2nd hole in ballot. That was the only legitimate point that could be made, but they couldn't because the voting card was approved by their democrat controlled election board. And to bring in a Daly from Chicago to oversee the legitamacy of the vote? Why not have Michael Jackson babysit your kids, or Phil Helmuth play your high stakes roll for you while your at it.

[Eclypse]

Balloon guy, on Saturday, April 8th, 2006, 1:37 AM, said:

Which thing was crap?

If I start picking out the crap in your posts, you will want to argue with me. There’s a guy in the nuthouse that thinks the moon is made of green cheese. Even though I show him scientific evidence that it is not, there is no chance he will ever believe differently. I imagine it would be like that with you as well, and I just have better things to do with my time.Even though I needled you a little with the, “most of what you say is crap,” thing, I really did try to help you out with the “slow down—keep it simple—crazy tangent” thing. And I see you made a definite improvement with your response to the Florida recount post, but imagine how much more SANE it would’ve looked to leave out the second crazy paragraph about the “fact that Pat Buchanan got 15,000 blah, blah, blah…”

[Steppin Razor]

Balloon guy, on Saturday, April 8th, 2006, 2:08 PM, said:

But they were forced in by Algore not accepting he lost every recount. So they were a perfect check against the democrats attempts to asurp the legitimate authority of the Florida Constitution. They were required to certify the results by such and such a date, got an extension, another one, and still a 3rd, and asked for a fourth. Sec State for Florida said no, they went to court to try to make Sec State ignore Fl Cons., and got slapped. Nobody appointed Bush, and nobody successfully stole an election.

In actuality, Bush was the first to go to court over recounts. The initial recount was triggered automatically.Here's a chronologyhttp://www.infopleas...a/A0884144.htmlSkip down to Dec. 9 and 11. I didn't say anything about 'stealing' an election. What essentially happened was, the Supreme Court said, 'No, no, no, you can't do recounts like that. What you have to do is <<<buzzer>>> - Time's up, we'll just go with what we have so far.'Anyway, it's done, and we'll be rid of these guys eventually. Not their mess though. It might be possible to reverse some of the damage, but none of the shmucks the Democrats are going to put up will have the strength. The only Democrat with b*lls is Howard Dean, and I think the Dems don't like him more than the Reps.