18 replies to this topic

[Dolson]

i was in a one table sit and go tonight, blinds were at 50-100 and my buddy was telling me i played this hand wrong. i think it was correct.ok so i am in the SB, everyone folds around to me, i have A6 and complete the SB, the BB checks.Flop comes A Q 8, since the BB checked pre flop, i am pretty i have the best hand here, in fact i am posititive i do. So i check, hoping to induce a bluff from him. he bets out 300 and i go all in for 1400. he calls with A4. I have him dominated, he catches a 4 on the turn and i am done. i am happy with play though and i think it was correct, what does everyone else think? Responses are appreciated, thanks.

[Dirtydutch]

i don't believe that your friend really said that. if so... he's an Idiot.Dutch.

[MilesZS]

I'm not an expert by any means.That being said, completing in the small blind after everyone folds with A6 is not bad -- me, I probably woulda thought about raising, at least to get a sense of what the big blind has, or maybe to just steal his blind.Pushing with top pair, crappy kicker I would say, is NOT a good move. Neither was his calling your all-in, but that's irrelevant. It looks like the two of you were destined to throw all your chips in with Ace-rag hands, so maybe it doesn't matter how you bet here, all-in or not. I would say you have the complex that most 'amateur' American poker players suffer from -- Ace Infatuation -- AI if you will. Ace rag is not a good hand. Never is it a good hand. Even if it flops a full house, it was not a good hand -- now it's a lucky hand. Your buddy is right, sorry bro.

[Jtmaroon84]

Your buddy is right, top pair with a middle kicker is not a check raising hand (in fact, another card higher than an 8 splits the pot here). I don't know why people feel the need to slowplay every possible hand they have. That being said, the other guy played his hand equally as bad.Also you fail to give us your stack sizes and other important information, either way you were wrong though.

[Dolson]

i know ace rag is by no means a good hand, but after everyone folds around to u in the SB, its looks pretty decent, and if my opponent had an A with a decent kicker, i would think he would raise pre flop. So, the situation of being heads up and him checking pre flop, i m pretty sure i have best hand. Thats why i thought it was the right play.Actually, the hand went just like i had planned in my head after i saw flop, i checked hoping to induce a steal of the pot and was gonna go all in over the top of him. and thats exactly what he did.If it wasnt a heads up pot , i would never have done this play.

[Jtmaroon84]

Also, after looking at the odds, you don't have him dominatedYou are about 52% to win after that flop, barring any flush possiblities that were out there.

[wrto4556]

Raise pre-flop.Bet the flop.

[Swift_Psycho]

Dolson said:

i was in a one table sit and go tonight, blinds were at 50-100 and my buddy was telling me i played this hand wrong. i think it was correct.ok so i am in the SB, everyone folds around to me, i have A6 and complete the SB, the BB checks.Flop comes A Q 8, since the BB checked pre flop, i am pretty i have the best hand here, in fact i am posititive i do. So i check, hoping to induce a bluff from him. he bets out 300 and i go all in for 1400. he calls with A4. I have him dominated, he catches a 4 on the turn and i am done.  i am happy with play though and i think it was correct,  what does everyone else think?  Responses are appreciated, thanks.

I know that no one yet has agreed with how you played it Dolson, but personally I probably play it the same way. If it's a friendly homegame type hand, you can easily munipulate a Q into calling your all in on this flop by playing it like you did. Limping pre-flop from the SB was no a bad play in my opinion either. I've trapped a lot of players playing Ax like you did heads-up, and it's just unlikely that you are up against a better hand in these situations, since you have this one opponent to worry about only. Ah well, good luck at the tables.

[junkky]

well just my opinion but i raise that pre and if he calls, then raises me after the flop like that i don't reraise all in, Sorry buddy but your friend was right!

[Dolson]

junkky said:

well just my opinion but i raise that pre and if he calls, then raises me after the flop like that i don't reraise all in, Sorry buddy but your friend was right!

sure, but i didnt raise pre flop, and i checked on the flop, i did not get re raised, if i showed strength that would be a different story, but i didnt. My whole point is that i was trying to trap him, and i did. went just like i planned.

[Dolson]

i think what wroto said is right, i should have raised pre flop and bet the flop.But since i didnt, i was in a different situation. i mean after he checks pre flop, and a flop of A Q 8 rainbow . i am just about 100% i have best hand. Maybe he could have Q8. but thats about it, if he has A and kicker higher than 6, i think this player would have raised from what i saw in his play so far.I respect what you guys are saying, but i dont think you are looking at it from the same perspective as me.

[Ebonwoulfe]

I think lots of pros would tell you that a smooth call out of the SB with any A is a perfectly fine play. You disguise what little strength you have, and if you miss the flop, fine you can get away cheaply.I mean if you raise with A-6 here and get called by an aggressive player and the flop comes 6 T Q, where are you? You have bottom pair. You're done with the hand if he shows aggression, and he just might.Of course, if you limp here and an A comes on the flop, then you might get some extra check-raise $$ out of the guy who you have now caused to misread your hand.These are the benefits of not raising with any A here. I think you played it well but got unlucky.People who say that your play of this weak A in this circumstance is a bad play don't see these benefits. You didn't expect him to have an A, you expected him to be far more behind than he was. Raising preflop and betting the flop probably would have net you the same results, because he seemed prepared to go all the way with his bad A, unless you got him to fold preflop. Playing it this way opens the door that he might bet with a Q or try to bluff since you showed weakness. It was the only play that had a good chance at picking up more than the big blind or letting you get away cheaply.

[Shellesund]

I think you played this hand close to perfect. The only thing I`m not sure I would have done, is push all the chips in. Maybe double his bet...And A6 IS dominating A4, no matter what board comes. Sometimes though, the dominated hand wins...

[Metro]

Shellesund said:

And A6 IS dominating A4, no matter what board comes. Sometimes though, the dominated hand wins...

Not really. Most of the time, the kickers won't even come into play.

[Shellesund]

Metro said:

Shellesund said:

And A6 IS dominating A4, no matter what board comes. Sometimes though, the dominated hand wins...

Not really. Most of the time, the kickers won't even come into play.

That`s not really what I mean. To put it short; A6 dominates A4. End of story. That`s the definition of domination.

[KramitDaToad]

Shellesund said:

That`s not really what I mean. To put it short; A6 dominates A4. End of story. That`s the definition of domination.

Nope - that's a statement not a definition...Metro's point is extremely relevant though. Whilst, A4 is technically dominated, the domination is so weak it rarely factors by the river.To the OP:Your question was to ask if it was the correct play.No it wasn't. It was pointed out by wrto and others as to what the correct play was.By simply completing the blind you gave your opponent three free cards to beat your A high. You then give him another by checking the flop. Fair enough you are likely to have the strongest hand here, but you gave him the best possible chance to outdraw you.How would you have felt if he had rubbish, checked the flop behind you and made runner-runner anything to beat you.

[Devilkin]

I agree with Kramit and wrto - the right play here is to raise preflop.If BB folds, you stole a blind. If not, you have at least a coin toss hand to compete with. If the flop comes, and you miss it completely, you can check-fold. If you have ever experienced late tourney play down to 2 or 3 players, you are just salivating to see Ax appear. Its almost the same thing when the table folds around to the SB - play it agressively.Dev

[Metro]

Shellesund said:

Metro said:

Shellesund said:

And A6 IS dominating A4, no matter what board comes. Sometimes though, the dominated hand wins...

Not really. Most of the time, the kickers won't even come into play.

That`s not really what I mean. To put it short; A6 dominates A4. End of story. That`s the definition of domination.

A6s v A4sPreflop - 56.9 / 43.1After that flop - 52.7 / 47.3 ( A Q 8 )assuming theyare all offsuit toboth playersTo me, that doesn't look like domination.AKs v AJs on that same board... 85.2/14.8 that's more along the lines of domination... but even then, AJ has outs.

[Devilkin]

Metro is correct with his numbers - the reason its not a domination hand is the kicker is so low, there is a fair chance that both will be thrown out and the pot split. Basically, there is a slight statistical advantage to the A6, but not near enough to call it a dominated hand.This is an excellent example of just how important a kicker is, especially to an A.Dev