38 replies to this topic

[GrinderMJ]

Full Tilt Poker Game #497602707: $17,000 Guarantee (3139951), Table 55 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:17:21 ET - 2006/03/13
Seat 1: roninwarlord (2,120)
Seat 2: ihavnangel (5,675)
Seat 3: AquaVelvet (2,015)
Seat 4: UconnStyle (8,960)
Seat 5: MolinoCasinoLB (3,630), is sitting out
Seat 6: NutsInYoEye (3,460)
Seat 7: ICEMANN69 (2,560)
Seat 8: predator06 (7,270)
Seat 9: GrinderMJ (9,820)
MolinoCasinoLB posts the small blind of 60
NutsInYoEye posts the big blind of 120
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GrinderMJ [Jd Js]
ICEMANN69 folds
predator06 folds
Bubba83 (Observer): Go Grinder!!! WOOO!!!
GrinderMJ raises to 360
roninwarlord folds
ihavnangel folds
AquaVelvet folds
UconnStyle raises to 8,960, and is all in
MolinoCasinoLB folds
GrinderMJ:

Keeping in mind this is early hour 2 we are both way above average

[Bubba83]

I'm not sure how much you think this mattered or not Grinder, but as an aside, Grinder had raised 3x BB the previous hand, same Villain called out of the SB, flop came A rag rag, Villain checked, Grinder bet around half pot, and Villain folded. Maybe Villain thinks Grinder is playing overaggressive and wants to establish table dominance? I'm not saying Villain was tilting or anything, just a thought...

For what it's worth, I think it's a call if you don't mind flipping a coin a good portion of the time.

[GrinderMJ]

I'm not sure how much you think this mattered or not Grinder, but as an aside, Grinder had raised 3x BB the previous hand, same Villain called out of the SB, flop came A rag rag, Villain checked, Grinder bet around half pot, and Villain folded. Maybe Villain thinks Grinder is playing overaggressive and wants to establish table dominance? I'm not saying Villain was tilting or anything, just a thought...

For what it's worth, I liked the call.

was actually gonna post the previous hand, as i thought it might influence the hand. I had j10 hand before btw.

[PoppinFresh]

Easy fold, you have a deep stack no reason to cripple yourself with JJ when you have 360 invested

[Bubba83]

Grinder you may want to edit your quote of my original post since it contained info about what you did in the hand.

[GrinderMJ]

Easy fold, you have a deep stack no reason to cripple yourself with JJ when you have 360 invested

You find this fold easy? I'd say his hand range is 1010, ak, qq with it being 60%1010, 30%ak, and maybe 10% qq. I know that's not super accurate, but that's a rough estimate of what I put him on, look at this spot poppin, early hour 2, he pushed a 8k stack into the only guy who busts him with AA, KK QQ? No smaller raise, his raise SCREAMS for me to fold.

[Bubba83]

You find this fold easy? I'd say his hand range is 1010, ak, qq with it being 60%1010, 30%ak, and maybe 10% qq. I know that's not super accurate, but that's a rough estimate of what I put him on, look at this spot poppin, early hour 2, he pushed a 8k stack into the only guy who busts him with AA, KK QQ? No smaller raise, his raise SCREAMS for me to fold.

I was thinking it's more like AK 60% 1010 30% QQ 10%

Most of the time people are coming over the top for a huge raise like this I'm seeing them do it with AK because they haven't the slightest clue what to do with it postflop and saw the people on the WPT do it.

[loogie]

It looks like AK to me. I fold it and wait for a better opportunity.

[CobaltBlue]

You find this fold easy? I'd say his hand range is 1010, ak, qq with it being 60%1010, 30%ak, and maybe 10% qq. I know that's not super accurate, but that's a rough estimate of what I put him on, look at this spot poppin, early hour 2, he pushed a 8k stack into the only guy who busts him with AA, KK QQ? No smaller raise, his raise SCREAMS for me to fold.

Probably AK. I probably take the flip, because I've got the good side, and I'd love to be the monster bully.

[copernicus]

JJ I fold, QQ I call.

[therrinn]

Looks like KK or AA to me. No other hand makes remote sense.

[Vick12]

Looks like KK or AA to me. No other hand makes remote sense.

ASSTASTICALLY BIG RAISE!!!!

Best Thread Title EVER!!!

Grinder...I had to wipe my screen off after spitting my pop all over it when I saw that title!!!

I agree w/ therrinn...he likely knows your aggressive and thinks you will give him a loose call.

You are a baller...pick a better spot!

[mk]

If I have a read that he's a good player and could be trying to represent a weakish hand when he actually has a monster by totally overbetting, then this is an easy fold.

If I have a read that he's an idiot, then I mull it over for the length of my time bank and reluctantly fold. If he's willing to make plays like this preflop, he'll do it in other hands on later streets when you'll have a better idea where you stand.

If I don't have a read, I fold pretty quickly. You're way above average and there are plenty of other smaller stacks to go to war with.

[shpaget]

Unless you have a reason to believe AT, AJ, or a selection of pairs 99 or lower, are possible holdings, it's a fold.

Even with QQ.

[Bubba83]

If you guys think he could have KK or AA that is one thing, but I really dislike hearing all the posts about "hey you're in great shape right now and can look for better opportunities" This thought process has been continually proven wrong by great players such as Matt Matros. If we know we have an edge, and I admit it's debatable whether we do in this hand, we should take it.

[gobears]

I would fold here as you only dominate 10 10, coin flip against AK and crushed by QQ+.

However, I've been running bad lately so you should do the opposite of what I say a la George in Seinfeld.

[strategy]

I would fold here as you only dominate 10 10, coin flip against AK and crushed by QQ+.

However, I've been running bad lately so you should do the opposite of what I say a la George in Seinfeld.

JJ is surprisingly only a 43% dog to that range. If he seems like an idiot, you can probably widen it a bit and make the call.

I've been known to do some crazy things with 77 in the past, so take this with a grain of salt.

[shpaget]

If you guys think he could have KK or AA that is one thing, but I really dislike hearing all the posts about "hey you're in great shape right now and can look for better opportunities" This thought process has been continually proven wrong by great players such as Matt Matros. If we know we have an edge, and I admit it's debatable whether we do in this hand, we should take it.

Yes, Matros calls if he KNOWS he's up against AK...I'm not sure I do, though, probably. And that's the gist of his ONE article that everyone points at - you KNOW you're opponent is on AK.

The fact is, you don't know here.

A bad fold is usually better than a bad call.


And, to be balanced, many successful pros disagree with Matros' stance here...that a 52-48 edge is not enough to risk in a tournament setting when you have any choice in the matter.

[GrinderMJ]

Meh, here's the full HH, this was pretty much the exact hand I put him on, this or 1010, and my thinking at the time when I made the call was that thsi was an extremely weak field, and I could probably nickel and dime way pretty deep, I decided that if I was one of the best players in the tourney with a gigantic stack, it was VERY likely that I would go real deep in this tourney. Guess I should have just folded and found a better spot.
Full Tilt Poker Game #497602707: $17,000 Guarantee (3139951), Table 55 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:17:21 ET - 2006/03/13
Seat 1: roninwarlord (2,120)
Seat 2: ihavnangel (5,675)
Seat 3: AquaVelvet (2,015)
Seat 4: UconnStyle (8,960)
Seat 5: MolinoCasinoLB (3,630), is sitting out
Seat 6: NutsInYoEye (3,460)
Seat 7: ICEMANN69 (2,560)
Seat 8: predator06 (7,270)
Seat 9: GrinderMJ (9,820)
MolinoCasinoLB posts the small blind of 60
NutsInYoEye posts the big blind of 120
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GrinderMJ [Jd Js]
ICEMANN69 folds
predator06 folds
Bubba83 (Observer): Go Grinder!!! WOOO!!!
GrinderMJ raises to 360
roninwarlord folds
ihavnangel folds
AquaVelvet folds
UconnStyle raises to 8,960, and is all in
MolinoCasinoLB folds
GrinderMJ: lol
NutsInYoEye folds
GrinderMJ: holy balls
GrinderMJ: how sick of a call would this be
predator06: chip leader?
GrinderMJ has 15 seconds left to act
GrinderMJ: i can't be ahead
Bubba83 (Observer): you're no fun UconnStyle :]
GrinderMJ calls 8,600
UconnStyle shows [Kh As]
predator06: whatcha got hehe?
GrinderMJ shows [Jd Js]
*** FLOP *** [Ac 5c 3s]
*** TURN *** [Ac 5c 3s] [3h]
predator06: DOH
*** RIVER *** [Ac 5c 3s 3h] [6s]
UconnStyle shows two pair, Aces and Threes
GrinderMJ shows two pair, Jacks and Threes
UconnStyle: wow
UconnStyle wins the pot (18,100) with two pair, Aces and Threes
The blinds are now 80/160

[therrinn]

Meh, here's the full HH, this was pretty much the exact hand I put him on, this or 1010, and my thinking at the time when I made the call was that thsi was an extremely weak field, and I could probably nickel and dime way pretty deep, I decided that if I was one of the best players in the tourney with a gigantic stack, it was VERY likely that I would go real deep in this tourney. Guess I should have just folded and found a better spot.
Full Tilt Poker Game #497602707: $17,000 Guarantee (3139951), Table 55 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:17:21 ET - 2006/03/13
Seat 1: roninwarlord (2,120)
Seat 2: ihavnangel (5,675)
Seat 3: AquaVelvet (2,015)
Seat 4: UconnStyle (8,960)
Seat 5: MolinoCasinoLB (3,630), is sitting out
Seat 6: NutsInYoEye (3,460)
Seat 7: ICEMANN69 (2,560)
Seat 8: predator06 (7,270)
Seat 9: GrinderMJ (9,820)
MolinoCasinoLB posts the small blind of 60
NutsInYoEye posts the big blind of 120
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GrinderMJ [Jd Js]
ICEMANN69 folds
predator06 folds
Bubba83 (Observer): Go Grinder!!! WOOO!!!
GrinderMJ raises to 360
roninwarlord folds
ihavnangel folds
AquaVelvet folds
UconnStyle raises to 8,960, and is all in
MolinoCasinoLB folds
GrinderMJ: lol
NutsInYoEye folds
GrinderMJ: holy balls
GrinderMJ: how sick of a call would this be
predator06: chip leader?
GrinderMJ has 15 seconds left to act
GrinderMJ: i can't be ahead
Bubba83 (Observer): you're no fun UconnStyle :]
GrinderMJ calls 8,600
UconnStyle shows [Kh As]
predator06: whatcha got hehe?
GrinderMJ shows [Jd Js]
*** FLOP *** [Ac 5c 3s]
*** TURN *** [Ac 5c 3s] [3h]
predator06: DOH
*** RIVER *** [Ac 5c 3s 3h] [6s]
UconnStyle shows two pair, Aces and Threes
GrinderMJ shows two pair, Jacks and Threes
UconnStyle: wow
UconnStyle wins the pot (18,100) with two pair, Aces and Threes
The blinds are now 80/160

Good call. I clearly didn't factor in the idiocy.