9 replies to this topic

[Pancake407]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is UTG with [8h], [8d]. Hero calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 4 folds, BB raises, Hero calls, MP2 calls.Flop: (6.50 SB) [Kh], [7h], [4s] (3 players)BB bets, Hero raises...Folding to a 3-bet, thoughts?

[thecamelot]

Any reads on BB?How often is folding to a 3-bet correct?I wouldn't want it to be a standard play I make where observant opponents notice it and 3-bet me on the flop a lot to get me to fold... On the other hand, not very many opponents are observant.I do like the flop raise though.

[doubleatrain]

If you get 3-bet, I'd lean towards calling.A.) Shows you're not going to fold for one more bet on the flop (ie, don't want to get pushed around).B.) By then the pot is laying you 12.5:1, add implied set odds and since you have the 8h, you won't put a flush on the board if you hit your set on the turn, that equals a call to me.All said, against most villains this is a raise/call; fold UI to me.

[Pancake407]

ok, so raising here could be considered a standard play against the right opponents? raise/call is a good line?

[Actuary]

Pancake407, on Monday, March 13th, 2006, 7:48 PM, said:

raise/call is a good line?

not in my book, unless MP2 also calls your two cold first.Then you can expectr him to call the 3-bet and the pot would be laying 14.5 to 1. and you'll have two palyers in to collect the 4 BB's you need for sets; however, sometimes you lose to a flush after making your set, and sometimes MP2 folds the turn UI and you don't make 4 BB's up.But for reasons like "not wanting to raise fold too much", I'd probably call a 3-bet if MP2 still in and fold turn UI.If MP2 folds and BB 3-bets, it's 11.5 : 1 back to us, with one opponent to extract from if we hit a set. You should not call if you are folding the turn UI. IMO, you have to raise the turn if you are going to call a 3-bet here.I don't have those cajones.I do like the flop raise. A lot.You pick the pot up here or on a turn bet vs 99-QQ, Ax, enough.Check behind on river if it gets there.

[doubleatrain]

Actuary, on Monday, March 13th, 2006, 10:32 PM, said:

If MP2 folds and BB 3-bets, it's 11.5 : 1 back to us, with one opponent to extract from if we hit a set. You should not call if you are folding the turn UI. IMO, you have to raise the turn if you are going to call a 3-bet here.I don't have those cajones.

Is this one of those situations where we don't necessarily have the odds to draw out, so our call assumes we have the best hand, so we have to call the turn in that situation? Just for clarification.

[Actuary]

yes.I made that mistake all the time.Combination plays..like..sometimers he's bluffing and sometimes I have best hand and sometimes I hit runner runner ...In the end though, you have to have a reason that takes you thru the hand (or to a fold), I mean you might say "ah, 20% of time I have best hand, so I can see the turn", well if you fold the turn UI 100% of the time, who cares if you thought you were good 20%?

[doubleatrain]

Actuary, on Monday, March 13th, 2006, 11:06 PM, said:

yes.I made that mistake all the time.Combination plays..like..sometimers he's bluffing and sometimes I have best hand and sometimes I hit runner runner ...In the end though, you have to have a reason that takes you thru the hand (or to a fold), I mean you might say "ah, 20% of time I have best hand, so I can see the turn", well if you fold the turn UI 100% of the time, who cares if you thought you were good 20%?

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. That's definitely something I need to pay more attention to, so remind me of that any chance you get. :)That said, since we do have the 8 of the suit with two on the board, are the reverse implied odds as drastic? It seems close enough where (admittedly maybe not at .50/1) the affects of not being seen as a folder might be worth the marginality of the situation.I may be understimating the RIO, or overestimating metagame advantages, but just some thoughts. Just trying to get a handle on these situations.

[Zach6668]

Actuary, on Tuesday, March 14th, 2006, 12:06 AM, said:

yes.I made that mistake all the time.Combination plays..like..sometimers he's bluffing and sometimes I have best hand and sometimes I hit runner runner ...In the end though, you have to have a reason that takes you thru the hand (or to a fold), I mean you might say "ah, 20% of time I have best hand, so I can see the turn", well if you fold the turn UI 100% of the time, who cares if you thought you were good 20%?

This is a key point that I very rarely consider. Thank you.- Zach

[Actuary]

Zach6668, on Monday, March 13th, 2006, 10:06 PM, said:

This is a key point that I very rarely consider. Thank you.- Zach

thank you sir.It was one of my better moments!Could be all wrong, but at least I spelled most words correctly.welcome back Zach!